Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

[whydidhesaythat]

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

Or tell me what is so very wrong with EU Comissioners?

Faux horror? Ethelb You just called working class people stupid, lazy ignorant cunts? Are you for real?

Does anyone know how much money the EU gave Britain in subsidies and how much they received? How much did Britain also spend in match funding? And why has the EU been gradually cutting funding - many farmers j know voted out as they had been told by Europe they would have to find money themselves anyway? Many, MANY Eu funded programmes ended last March. Why do people think Europe would not have continued to cut funding?

I despair, I really do. I guess there are intolerant crackpots on both sides and if anything this proves it. And yes Ethelb I am calling you an intolerant crackpot.

I don't think you get my point at all. Im glad I am now intolerant of ignorant lazy people, and rue the days when I was a fluffy liberal who made excuses for entitled thickos.

Oh... I got your disgusting point Ethelb, dont you worry.

Ethelb, you do realise there is no such word as stupider? Why is it always those who hope to mock people of low intelligence, who use this non-word? Are they TRYING to make a fool of themselves?!

A whole discussion derailed by a WUM. Can we just ignore?

Fair point elements... But whats a WUM? Lol

Wind up merchant summer !

Ahhhh! Thanks Elements! Every day is a school day! 😂😂😂

Maki79

If you knew of some of the excess that exists in Whitehall...

I feel far more sympathetic to those people who felt that they couldn't vote for "more of the same" and had to vote for a change, any change. Thanks to some lovely MN posters for explaining that position so eloquently.

However, I would still vote remain a hundred times over. I still feel that areas of deprivation benefited from EU money when they were being hung out to dry by Westminster - and that will continue but now without the buffer from Europe.

I used to run residential aspiration-raising programmes for teenagers from deprived areas, 100% funded by EU money. These programmes gave the kids practical experience of a range of jobs and industries they could work to move in to (design, engineering, etc) and information about different potential life paths with better prospects. This sort of people-centred activity just wasn't (isn't?) being funded by the UK govt and directly benefited the young people from deprived areas.

PPs have discussed why UK people don't move for jobs, and I feel that it should be far easier for an unemployed young man from eg Sunderland to move to the SE for work than their equivalent from Poland. I don't think anyone's suggesting a straight swap (unskilled labour to Poland for unskilled labour to UK, eg), but why is "doing a Dick Whittington" impossible in 2016? I don't really understand that. Either there are jobs or there aren't, how can EU nationals be stealing them?

I also feel quite strongly that there is a bit of a race to the bottom argument going on, ie "life is shit for me here so why should I care if your life gets a bit less pleasant", and that just infuriates me.

Anyway, sympathetic, yes to an extent. Would I change my vote, no way.

I wish there was a button I could press so I couldn't see all the shouty posts.

But am reading and thinking about all the others, and thanks for links.

As someone said, we can now take this opportunity to understand the reasoning better. That doesn't mean we have to agree that the EU was anything more than a scapegoat. Perhaps it does mean we have to be aware it is a mix of good and bad.

We haven't talked about the peace thing yet. I saw - literally saw - an Eastern European country choose a path towards demoncracy and peace (and this was no foregone conclusion) because of the dream of EU membership. But I was very very lucky to be there and to witness this.

Was I there because I'm a nicer person? Was I fuck. I was there because I got to a posh uni where I met a posh roommate whose posh mum said "oh darlings- you must go to Prague at once - the wall is down" - and so I did. Trust me, my own mum didn't say that kind of thing :)

Re

Minimum wage only exists due to low skilled immigration - lower immigration increases wages, particularly for the low skilled.

I honestly used to think that working class people were poor because of an oppressive capitalist system, I now realise it is because they are stupid and lazy and deeply unpleasant
😂😂😂😂😂😂

Maki- I was asking if the people who object so strongly to European Commissioners also object strongly to senior civil servants in UK government departments who also hold no mandate from the people of th country or to its elected representatives?

I heard on the radio that the EU only gave back around half of what they were given by the UK govt and then of course we had the govt paying out match funding. Less and less money was coming from the EU so I do get why people visited Leave. As I said before the farmers I know all voted Leave bar two, as EU had told them they would not be subsidised as they had been and would have to find the money themselves.

I don't see how people have more faith in Juncker et al to be a buffer than their own govt.

Oops voted I mean.

do. I guess there are intolerant crackpots on both sides and if anything this proves it.

You can say that again.

I don't think she is s WUM, sadly.

PPs have discussed why UK people don't move for jobs, and I feel that it should be far easier for an unemployed young man from eg Sunderland to move to the SE for work than their equivalent from Poland. I don't think anyone's suggesting a straight swap (unskilled labour to Poland for unskilled labour to UK, eg), but why is "doing a Dick Whittington" impossible in 2016? I don't really understand that. Either there are jobs or there aren't, how can EU nationals be stealing them?

If you're specifically considering the South-East, the only mystery is that anyone does a Dick W. The sums just don't stack up for unskilled or semi skilled work, once you look at housing costs.

Lastgirl I understand that the EU funded activity and areas that the UK govt chose not to, that's why I feel that the EU buffer was a positive thing. If successive UK govts had chosen to divert funds to deprived areas at that level, they could have done - but didn't, so the EU did. I guess this is why although I feel desperately sad that there are people that felt they had no choice but to vote for change (not necessarily to leave the EU), I don't have faith that "their own govt" will fill the gaps left. UK govts created the gaps in the first place.

That said, I'd be very happy to be proved wrong.