The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Boris still trying not to be outmanoevered.

[RedToothBrush]

Clearly Boris didn't get the memo, on when to quit the power games, even after Gove schooled him in the dark arts of the Tory Leadership....

So the Tory Smackdown rolls on whilst Corbyn STILL clings on. UKIP has now entered the race to make a challenge for who can make the biggest leadership contest shambles.

In The Blue Corner
May strikes fear into the hearts of EU citizens as she counts her bargaining chips.
Gove strikes fear into the hearts of humans, with his Martian twitch.
Loathsom strikes fear in the hearts of Britains by talking about babies brains.
Crabb strikes fear into the hearts of Torys by suggesting a plan that Corbyn might like. (and that beard doesn't help).
And Fox.
Well he just turned up.

Johnson is still waiting in the wings to stab Gove. He'd quite fancy a seat at the cabinet table too.
Osborne has gone quite again and we wait with baited breathe to see if he is the 'Charlie off Casualty' of the Tory Party (y'know whatever happens he somehow survives like a cockroach).

In The Red Corner
Corbyn apologies. So we know he's getting a bit desperate.
Will the Unions figure out something else to do other than sit with their head in hands.
Angela Eagle is still doing jellyfish impressions and hasn't found that backbone.
We STILL don't know who the fuck Owen Smith is?
Will Bliar's chicken's finally come home to roost?
The Cult of Momentum, rumbles on. We aren't quite sure who they actually vote for, but they seem to like their Dear Leader.
When will this country next have an opposition party?

Its kinda getting boring guys, we need some action now. End the Chicken Coup! The Tories are definitely out doing in the high drama stakes.

In the Purple Corner
Farage has gone! Hurrah. We hope only that he stays under that rock.
(Don't count on it. They'll wheel him out when they need publicity)
Will Leadsom be elected leader? Oh sorry, wrong party. I was getting confused for a second there.
Will they throw the cuckoo Carswell out? [:)]
Will they be able to find a less offensive leader than Farage who can unite them in their common goal of errrr..... yeah. That.
How long before one of their candidates has to apologise for something?

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

It makes you wonder whether the Referendum was just about the fact that Cameron wasn't doing as he was told enough.

And he got persuaded the referendum was a good idea - as of course the Lib Dems would block it, but was really being set up to fail from the word go.

sigh

You know, my friend also pointed out that Murdoch's long-term purposes are quite obscure, and the Murdoch's and Baks's interests really don't align with those of 'the UK', even in the weakened sense we have become inured to (with 'the UK' being the well-off, or not including key geographical areas).

I know we usually say that the interests of the right-wing are to make the rich richer but M and B are not held in check by any sort of national electoral accountability at all.

I am genuinely concerned about the plans and interests of Leadsom and Gove. I'm troubled by May, but that 'troubled' is a state I am used to when contemplating the motives of figures who are on the right of the Conservative party. With Gove and Leadsom, I think we are entering quite a new area.

Never thought I'd prefer Cameron. And I loathe him.

Meanwhile whilst everyone's paying attention to Chilcot, the leadership battles and Pistorius today's a good day to bury bad news.

I'm guessing this is problem one of them:

Chief Executive at North Middlesex Hospital Trust leaves post after damning report
Which includes story about how patient lay dead for 4 hours
NHS fucked.

This would normally be the headline story on an average day.

God its a circus.

I expected them to drop anything unsavoury publicly now, while attention is on Chilcot. It's what's usually done.

Red I don't know whether to or at that.

I can't decide whether to believe that this was a well-planned right-wing coup or whether this is opportunism in the face of chaos. Is it a compensatory fantasy to dream of having an (or some) evil genius(es) in charge, or is it better that no-one has a well-thought out plan?

So who is Team Murdoch, Team Banks and Team Dacre!!!!?

Chilcot breaking....

We have concluded that the UK chose to join the invasion of Iraq before the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted. Military action at that time was not a last resort.

So, Mr Chilcot, are you saying that myself, everyone else who took part in the Million Person March on London and the Lib Dems were right all along?

Oh bugger.

Dacre
Banks
Murdoch

In that order.

Absolutely do not prefer Cameron. Spineless. So much stems from how Westminster (and Brussels) are self-serving bubbles and completely out of touch with RL. Murdoch has a MUCH clearer grasp on the power of populism and how to manipulate and frighten weak politicians.

I can't decide whether to believe that this was a well-planned right-wing coup or whether this is opportunism in the face of chaos. Is it a compensatory fantasy to dream of having an (or some) evil genius(es) in charge, or is it better that no-one has a well-thought out plan?

My opinion is its probably a little bit of both.

I doubt there is any Evil Genius Masterplan. I'm not one for conspiracies particularly.

I think its more like chess, with each group trying to outsmart the other when the opportunity arises. To hell with how it affects everyone, as they can always use the situation to their advantage somehow.

I do wonder how history will judge the era.

Chilcot says without evidence of major new Iraqi violations, most UN security council members were not convinced peaceful alternatives to war had been exhausted.

He says Blair and Bush blamed France for obstructing action. They said France was undermining the UN security council’s authority.

Oh look. The damned French tried to stop our PM from doing something.

(isn't context just everything? put in the context of this current strain of conversation particularly, the French don't look like such a bad bunch)

I can't decide whether to believe that this was a well-planned right-wing coup

Nobody is that smart.

John Major revealed that, at a 1997 dinner, Murdoch asked him to change his policy on Europe, warning that his newspapers would not support him if he failed to do so. “This is a conversation that is hard to forget,” said Major. “It is not often someone sits in front of a prime minister and says to him 'I would like you to change your policy or my organization cannot support you'," Major added.
carnegieendowment.org/2013/02/07/who-is-more-powerful-merkel-or-murdoch

citroen I don't actually prefer ANY of them, but some days it's the devil you know. I have a feeling it's going to be ugly no matter who is PM.

Kudos to Chilcot. He isn't pulling his punches. I expected it to be much more anodyne.

GingerIvy Quite.

But I always knew we anti war marchers were right

It really does just show how much we need Labour to get its bloody act together.

NOW.

I know what you mean, officerhrinka. I went on the Sop the War marches, with my family, and groups of friends from NCT meetings, and there were coaches from my London suburb, filled with families. I don;t think any of us were waiting for Chilcot, particularly, to confirm our beliefs.

I guess my interest now is in how this will affect present-day politics.

Yes, Red.

I'm finding that I begin the day reflecting on the urgency of coherent opposition - and then fighting down an urge to kick something.

But I always knew we anti war marchers were right

Well yes of course.
At least now history officially says we were.
Shame about all the deaths and shattered lives and the lives we continue to dehumanise and be indifferent about all because they are 'illegal immigrants taking our jobs'.

But still. That's the other side of humanity isn't it?

And of course in the words of Elie Wiesel "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference."

I'm finding that I begin the day reflecting on the urgency of coherent opposition - and then fighting down an urge to kick something.

Channel it. Giving a shit, isn't a bad thing.

Chilcot says the inquiry does not accept Blair’s claim that it was impossible to predict the post-invasion problems. Those problems were anticipated, he says.

Are you listening Mr Letwin. What did you say YESTERDAY?

Yes, Red. And as a poster said up-thread, there are clear analogies (lack of planning; lack of transparency; sidelining of expert opinion) to the current situation. And, of course, the line that can be traced from the decision on Iraq to the present ME situation and the movement of peoples fleeing from 'instability' (euphemism alert).

The same poster (Liney?) suggested that Iraq lies laid the grounds for this role of untruth and a suspicious electorate in our current (referendum) situation.

I think that that's an interesting idea. I do think that the situation around the referendum is on a scale I've never experienced before (both the scale of the lies, and the way suspicion about politicans and truth actually led us straight into the hands of the most mendacious bunch).

I'm mostly interested in the narratives that are going to be drawn from Chilcot, and how they are going to play out.

disclaimer I have realised that I collapsed different memories when I said I remembered coaches going to the big Stop the War march from my London suburb. I condensed two separate situations there. I feel I have to be scrupulously honest, even about quite small things, in my own attempt to fight back against mis-truth in public life.