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Brexit

The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Boris still trying not to be outmanoevered.

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/07/2016 23:22

Clearly Boris didn't get the memo, on when to quit the power games, even after Gove schooled him in the dark arts of the Tory Leadership....

So the Tory Smackdown rolls on whilst Corbyn STILL clings on. UKIP has now entered the race to make a challenge for who can make the biggest leadership contest shambles.

In The Blue Corner
May strikes fear into the hearts of EU citizens as she counts her bargaining chips.
Gove strikes fear into the hearts of humans, with his Martian twitch.
Loathsom strikes fear in the hearts of Britains by talking about babies brains.
Crabb strikes fear into the hearts of Torys by suggesting a plan that Corbyn might like. (and that beard doesn't help).
And Fox.
Well he just turned up.

Johnson is still waiting in the wings to stab Gove. He'd quite fancy a seat at the cabinet table too.
Osborne has gone quite again and we wait with baited breathe to see if he is the 'Charlie off Casualty' of the Tory Party (y'know whatever happens he somehow survives like a cockroach).

In The Red Corner
Corbyn apologies. So we know he's getting a bit desperate.
Will the Unions figure out something else to do other than sit with their head in hands.
Angela Eagle is still doing jellyfish impressions and hasn't found that backbone.
We STILL don't know who the fuck Owen Smith is?
Will Bliar's chicken's finally come home to roost?
The Cult of Momentum, rumbles on. We aren't quite sure who they actually vote for, but they seem to like their Dear Leader.
When will this country next have an opposition party?

Its kinda getting boring guys, we need some action now. End the Chicken Coup! The Tories are definitely out doing in the high drama stakes.

In the Purple Corner
Farage has gone! Hurrah. We hope only that he stays under that rock.
(Don't count on it. They'll wheel him out when they need publicity)
Will Leadsom be elected leader? Oh sorry, wrong party. I was getting confused for a second there.
Will they throw the cuckoo Carswell out? [:)]
Will they be able to find a less offensive leader than Farage who can unite them in their common goal of errrr..... yeah. That.
How long before one of their candidates has to apologise for something?

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

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GingerIvy · 05/07/2016 15:42

That's okay, Doin that was my fault for that misunderstanding. Grin I clearly had a Smith and Jones moment and confused one for the other, and it went downhill from there. I'm back on track now.

Chalalala · 05/07/2016 15:44

what does he mean by AL's Pauline conversion? Has she changed her tune dramatically in 3 years?

Yes, she has - she's on record (somewhere) as saying that Brexit would be a catastrophe for the economy, a few years back

I'm assuming the reference to St Paul's conversion is ironic, because he's pretty clearly calling her a hypocrite and saying she's peddling extreme opinions she doesn't actually hold in order to gain popularity with the Tory membership.

nauticant · 05/07/2016 15:45

It's this:

news.sky.com/story/1720929/pro-brexit-leadsom-changed-her-mind-over-eu

Nightofthetentacle

I'm not that comforted that Leadsom isn't keen on Brexit. If you look at how her position is fluid it says to me that if she were in charge the result of Article 50 negotiations might be more what suits her than what suits the UK economy.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 15:45

Well aren't be getting Thatcher Mark II version a or version b?

Btw, thank you to everyone whose made nice comments, though its down to everyone really. I feel like I'm bombarding people, but on the other hand there is SOOOO much going on, I'd rather do that and let people make up their own minds as much as possible too.

Either way I'm glad people are getting something out of it. Understanding what is going on is the best way that we can make our future and its clear that we all can learn something.

If Brexit has a positive legacy in the end, I hope this is one of them.

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derxa · 05/07/2016 15:46

Owen Jones Grin Shock The way things are going he'll be Chancellor of the Exchequer despite not being an MP or a Tory.

GingerIvy · 05/07/2016 15:46

Is she thinking she will then do something utterly different once she's leader?

MrsLupo · 05/07/2016 15:47

I know bollock all about the shadowy Owen Smith but at this point he would definitely be my preferred candidate compared with Angela Eagle, simply because she's been so ridiculous and melodramatic for a week. Her leadership and decisionmaking qualities have hardly come to the fore, have they. And don't get me started on all the crying.

I don't want a leadership contest at all, mind you. I think the PLP needs to just get over itself and get on with the job at hand, preferably after an apology to the nation for being such a bunch of twats. Perhaps they could claim that Paul McKenna hypnotised them and it was all just a case of mass hysteria.

Whatever they do, they need to get on and do it fast - teachers, doctors, EU citizens, it's as though the Conservative party has just been given a free pass to not really bother responding to the many national crises that are unfolding around us.

GingerIvy · 05/07/2016 15:49

This is clearly Crabb's "thing" as it is always mentioned when there are articles about him of any length.

"On the issue of background, Mr Crabb was raised by a single mother on a council estate, and has spoken about his family's dependence on benefits and the importance of work, education and his Christian faith in promoting self-reliance and economic independence."

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 15:49

Bloody hell.

Labour Press release on the NHS
press.labour.org.uk/post/146946159549/the-tories-are-failing-the-nhs-diane-abbott

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GingerIvy · 05/07/2016 15:49

MrsLupo Definitely. Re Eagle, my mother's indelicate phrase "shit or get off the pot" comes to mind. Hmm

derxa · 05/07/2016 15:50

Owen Smith tweeted 'Chris Coleman for PM!!!!!! Proud to be Welsh tonight - and always!' What a good idea!
I feel slightly hysterical.

flippinada · 05/07/2016 15:52

Hello again. Struggling to keep up with these threads but enjoying them all the same!

Regarding potential leaders of the LP. My money's on Andy Burnham or perhaps Dan Jarvis.

Whoever sees off Corbyn will be a sacrificial lamb for that purpose - then someone else will step in.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2016 15:55

The next PM will largely determine whether Brexit means EEA (= Free Trade & EU Immigration) or WTO (worst option for UK manufacturing & economy) or even whether it is cancelled, if the deal / economic outlook is too bleak.

It is NOT democratic for the PM deciding this to be determined only by 150,000 Tory members who - like member of all parties - are far more extreme than their average voter.
In their particular case, they will have little practical knowledge of what slashing the welfare state means to the poorest, even if they had the empathy to consider it.

Pathetic response from Labour about Osborne's plan to slash corporation tax. The Tories think it's Chrismas.
Tories & neoliberald have used every crisis over the last decades as an excuse to loot assets from hard-working, low income earners to subsidise businesses.
They increase transfer of wealth to sleazy Murdoch and the hedge-fund vultures.

Osbourne / Tory plan:

  • Lower Corporation Tax -= Higher Income Tax / VAT + / or Lower Benefits

Likely from any new PM:

  • Removing "red tape" from business = bonfire of workers' rights, maternity leave, environmental & safety laws, protection against discrimination, being forced to work longer hrs ....
  • More Privitisation: the NHS, schools, Unis, prisons, police .....

Whatever their differences, the Tories will happily unite around this licence to loot.
Labour need to get their arse in gear.
While they are squabbling like a student union, the Tory juggernaut is moving on and will crush the Welfare State beneath its wheels.

Chalalala · 05/07/2016 15:56

Mr Crabb was raised by a single mother on a council estate

Good for him that he did well in life, but I'm always suspicious of conservatives with difficult background. It often makes them less compassionate, with the idea that "if I could do it then no excuses, anybody can".

On Leadsom, I agree with nauticant. I find it more worrying, not less, that she changes her mind according to the direction of the political winds.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 15:58

Jeremy Corbyn's office: 'there will be no resignation' after talks with Len McCluskey

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Nightofthetentacle · 05/07/2016 16:00

Aha, thanks nauticant and Chalala. Agree no comfort there, beyond that she might once upon a time have been right.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2016 16:01

Reminds me (old gimmer) of Norman Tebbitt answering about the unemployed: "My father got on his bike and looked for work until he found it "

TheBathroomSink · 05/07/2016 16:04

Does she change her mind according to political winds, or does she just say the first thing that pops into her head? I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out. She's far too much of an unknown quantity for my liking.

There is a small problem with Owen Smith (the actual politician, not the annoying Guardian writer), being that he's an MP in Wales, so he would run into all sorts of problems with the whole English Votes for English Laws thing. Plus of course, Wales might decide to take advantage of all the football generated goodwill, and go it alone, in which case, it would surely be Chris Coleman as Welsh PM and Gareth Bale as Chancellor (of course, they run a bit short of recognisable people then so would probably have to give Robbie Savage some sort of job, which would give everyone the wakeup call they need to rethink the whole idea...)

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 16:06

Was Farage sacked?
heatst.com/uk/coup-kip-nigel-farage-didnt-resign-from-ukip-he-was-sacked/

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Nightofthetentacle · 05/07/2016 16:06

I keep forgetting these people are fighting it out to be Prime Minister at the time of greatest economic and probably political uncertainty for the UK since maybe WW2. Leadsom may be marvellous and have the courage of her convictions now, but she's not exactly got an august history of governing, successful City career or no.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 16:07

There is a small problem with Owen Smith (the actual politician, not the annoying Guardian writer), being that he's an MP in Wales, so he would run into all sorts of problems with the whole English Votes for English Laws thing.

You mean like Stephen Crabb?

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/07/2016 16:10

The Tory leadership candidates all seem to agree on delaying invoking Article 50 until 2017.
Most want a year delay, so that the French & German elections will be over and they are no longer distracted / constrained by it (did the Leavers ever consider this before ?)

After a few months to digest what has happened and get a reality check that we can't remake the world in our image ....

It should be possible to get over 50% of the whole electorate to agree to / tolerate an EEA solution, with probably nearly all the 48% Remainers plus a small % Leavers.
^^
The referendum gave the choice Leave / Remain.
^^
That does NOT mean that Leavers have a veto about the FORM of Brexit, that would override the wishes of the everyone else.

derxa · 05/07/2016 16:10

Aaron Ramsey for Home Secretary

MrsLupo · 05/07/2016 16:13

Just found a quirkily amusing piece by a comedian who publishes random diatribes about people in the news under the heading I See You Stories. Just a bit of fun, but I love the bizarre combination of poetry and invective s/he directs at Angela Eagle:

www.facebook.com/ISeeYouStories/photos/a.572035576233853.1073741829.552777451492999/855236554580419/?type=3&theater

Pasted for those who can't see fb:

I see you, Angela Eagle.

I see your nervous blinking and the sag in your shoulders, the defeatism pouring off you in tangible waves. You seem tired, Angela Eagle, and the tremulous wobble in your voice betrays your uncertainty. Who can blame you, really? It's been a ridiculous bloody week and frankly the whole sodding thing seems to be collapsing like a house of cards. The masks are falling off left, right and centre and to just about nobody's surprise, it turns out those masks in the centre are actually a bit more to the right than they've been pretending.

It's been an omnishambles of the highest order, a weapons-grade fuckstorm of idiocy, with just about every politician in the country either falling on their swords or struggling to pull others from their backs, caterwauling and jockeying for position like a panicking shoal of fish in a feeding frenzy. Boris Johnson has been exposed as the cowardly little follow-through blusterfart we've always expected him to be, crapping the bed at a house party and trying to sneak out the back door before anyone notices the smell. Michael Gove has popped up to insist he's the man to sort out the mess, despite the fact he's got all the charisma of a hungry lamprey and claps like a haunted mannequin. Jeremy Hunt even considered running for PM, like a man turning up to save children from a house fire even though he smells of petrol and nobody's sure where he was an hour ago. And then, on top of all that, Theresa May looms over the horizon like the undead lovechild of Thatcher and Enoch Powell, as if she's taken one look at Stephen Crabb and decided that actually, he isn't quite homophobic enough to be leader.

What Labour should have done seemed like such a foregone conclusion at first. At a time when it became painfully obvious that the deprived communities the political classes have been brushing aside for decades saw Brexit as a means of voicing their contempt, it should have been easy to push a clear anti-austerity message that promised to protect their interests and secure their futures. Heck, maybe you could've even put forward a sensible plan for negotiating with the EU when it became painfully obvious the Leave camp didn't have one. Obviously the belly of the PLP was rumbling like crazy but it would have probably been a good idea to swallow a few Imodium and get behind the leader their membership overwhelmingly elected to capitalise on the Tories imploding. Instead they tried to exorcise what they naively thought would be nothing more than a Corbyn-scented fart and what we're left with is a Labour landscape that looks like someone filled a pressure washer with Bovril and fired it through a colander. They've purged themselves into oblivion and Corbyn's still hanging on like a stubborn tagnut.

You just can't get rid of him, can you, Angela Eagle? You've found yourselves stuck with Schrodinger's leader, a man who seems to both contradict and reinforce every compliment or criticism levelled at him. His support is nothing more than a cult of personality, even though you whine that he hasn't really got one. He's dull and incapable of motivating people, even though he's got the largest electoral mandate from the membership of any leader in history. He can't win an election, even though he seems to be quite good at winning elections. He doesn't have the strength of conviction to steer the ship through troubled waters, even though he's still at the helm when you lot have poked 172 holes in the hull. It's time for real change, even though that's exactly what he's advocating for and the PLP hasn't learned that Scotland and the swing voters clearly have no interest in a watered-down Tory party when the SNP and UKIP seem to be offering actual alternatives.

Unlike some, I don't fully buy the argument that this coup is nothing more than a Blairite resurgence. It's unlikely that all 172 of you have completely failed to acknowledge the apparent desire of the membership to move the party to the left and whatever happens, I'd like to think that Corbyn's legacy will at the very least have been to steer the unwieldy tanker a few degrees in that direction. But however unelectable he might seem to Labour MPs, the timing of the attempt to oust him has been fucking ridiculous and there's not a single viable alternative among you. Nobody's willing to issue an outright challenge to him because they know they'd be annihilated. Instead you've tried to push him out the back door at a time when just about the entire electorate is disillusioned with the failures of the democratic process at every level. Is it really a surprise that a man who's voted with his conscience rather than his ambitions for more than thirty years has more conviction than you were expecting?

But you got caught up in it regardless, Angela Eagle, and you've prematurely thrown your hat into the ring.

I see you, Angela Eagle, looking up at the moon and dreaming of new horizons. I see the throng behind you, pushing you towards the great scaffolding, Hilary Benn whispering in your ear that there's a whole new world out there to conquer. I see the crowd of 172 behind you, chanting your name in a low whisper, supportive but hardly vocal. I see them carry you on their shoulders, hosting you into the cockpit, strapping you in. You're in a rocket the PLP built for you out of the debris of New Labour, and your fuel is the quiet groundswell of rebellion.

I hear the engines roaring, Angela Eagle, and I see you pushed back into your seat by the rising G-force. I see the tears streaming from your ecstatic eyes as you're elevated from your position, blasting into the stratosphere, the PLP fading beneath you just as quickly as they first raised you up. I see you firing past the clouds, the great cheer of apparent victory bursting from your throat as you pierce the heavens.

I see the engines gutter and flicker out, Angela Eagle, silent in the void of space. I see the bright and glorious moon, a new political landscape just out of reach. You're out of gas, Angela Eagle, pushed up in to the stillness of oblivion and away from the cacophony below.

I see you drifting, Angela Eagle, the support below you now a thousand miles away. I see you frown. This isn't quite the glorious new dawn you were expecting, is it? It's like coming fourth all over again. Oh well. At least from this weird abyssal limbo you can look down and watch it go to shit all over again when the Chilcot Report comes out.

The Eagle hasn't quite landed, has it?

Still laughing at weapons grade fuckstorm of idiocy.

RedToothBrush · 05/07/2016 16:14

Bradford MP Naz Shah re admitted to Labour Party with conditions

Where to start with this one....

maybe the condition is she MUST take a shadow cabinet position without resigning?

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