Boris Johnson has pulled out of leadership race

[feckity]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120

So, Leavers are now (or will soon be) Establishment? And Remain have become "the people"?

So, 'the power'... Murdoch/Dacre? - how have they got to that position and why are they so powerful?

Thatcher was originally for it becuse she was surrounded by Establishment types who whispered in her ear and gave her that advice, but near the end, she changed her mind and became Euroscep after all she had done for the country.

She famously said to Jacques Delors who was President of the EU Commission or something like that

"No, Mr Delors, we shall not have socialism by the back door"

and the old boys were not pleased about that.

I'm sure the lady was not for allowing anything through the back door.

Was that old or new establishment, btw?

'So, Leavers are now (or will soon be) Establishment? And Remain have become "the people"?'

Power has been shaken, all the threats, exaggerations and lies if our ruling class have been made plain to see, they were the Boy Who Cried Wolf and their credibility is in tatters. Osborne, Bullingdon, can no longer stand for leader, he backed the losing side.

There is a power shift. Gove, a perosn not in the Cameron background upbringing, as Rache Sylvester sai on CHannel 4 News tonight, will probably take over power from the Etonians and Bullingdonians. The people who back Gove will have greter influence and among those are Dacre and Murdoch and the country will leave the EU because Gove will carry it through. So huge changes are happening.

The Remain Establishment are not the people however many mockney accents Blair adopts. They lost, but they are still around and Corbyn is in a battle with them now.

'So, 'the power'... Murdoch/Dacre? - how have they got to that position and why are they so powerful?'

There are lots of powerful people with different agendas and interests and principles and they compete in the battle of ideas to see which ones rise to the top.

Lweji

I meant to say that Thatcher was toppled by the old boys' network when she became increasingly Eurosceptic near the end.

Actual lol Lweji

But surely Leave will soon become the New Establishment part deux.

Claig So what, or who, should we be 'afraid' of right now?

It's all been orchestrated. The government is a joke.

are a joke excuse my bad grammar

I don't know. I think someone suggested before last Thursday that results would be rigged in favour of Remain.

Oh god, not illuminati theorists.

Aren't things bad enough?

'But surely Leave will soon become the New Establishment part deux'

It depends what happen and if the other side manage to stitch the people up by using the media to smear Brexit voters as racists, "old", "thick" and "uneducated" and get their second referendum or somehow stop us leaving the EU.

The people have won, but how long they can hold on is anyone's guess. These are historic times.

What we can say for certain is that if Trump wins in November, then the people's revolution will be secure at least for 4 or 8 years, but the combined power of the IMF, the Establishment and all the rest will probably come back after that.

Trump made a speech a few days ago where he promised he would change things and all the crap and loss of jobs would end and he said "we will have a good 4 or even 8 years, but after that they will probably go back to doing the same things".

are a joke excuse my bad grammar

Actually, "the government is a joke" is correct, as is "the government are a joke". Both grammatically and factually.

blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/09/agreement-over-collective-nouns/

Just not the police. The police are not a joke.

'Claig So what, or who, should we be 'afraid' of right now?'

Nobody, Project Fear was defeated and Gove's Project Hope is about to be enacted. We won.

Happy days all!

claig "If Dacre and Murdoch don't want him, then there is no point him running."

Was that the sound of you finally admitting that 'democracy' in this country is basically in the palm of two very rich men?

Well, I'm glad we went through all this shit to have our country democratically governed.

Do you actually understand what democracy means? Because it's not, 'one person telling 2 million how to vote'.

Boulevard, don't you understand that Dacre and Murdoch ARE the people?

Another question: everyone's lamenting about the fact that the Leave campaign don't have 'a plan'. What should that plan have looked like, exactly? What are the things they should have had in place, prior to the referendum?

Given that we can't negotiate an exit until A50 has been invoked, how could they actually plan anything at all? I accept that internal politics are another issue altogether, so certainly a plan for stability in our own Govt would have been sensible, but apart from that?

He is such a joke. He was never going to step up, once DC refused to act on overturning the Leave vote and resigned. Boris wants someone else to get their hands dirty and deal with the fallout of leaving the EU. He's all legs and no trousers (luckily for him, since he is running out of the race, like he is on fire)

'Was that the sound of you finally admitting that 'democracy' in this country is basically in the palm of two very rich men?'

I have always said there is an elite whose voice counts much, much more than any of ours. That's life, that's the way the world works. It is not just Dacre and Murdoch, there are many other members of the elite and they compete against each other.

What has happened here is that Cameron made a monumental mistake in allowing the people to get a look in and have a democratic vote. The people, with their characteristic common sense and good judgement laughed at the conveyor belt of bankers and bigwigs paraded out before them in some Project Fear Nightmare, and asked the pertinent question about how much public, government and EU money they were all in receipt of.

The people, with their customary good sense and defiance, stuck two fingers up and blew a raspberry at the Knights of the Realm "who said Ni". Just like the Greek people said "Oxi" to the EU, the British people told the EU "on your bike", the difference is that the British people won.

'Well, I'm glad we went through all this shit to have our country democratically governed.'

There was a fascinating BBC Radio 4 prigramme about sovereignty, Hobbes, a French guy before him, Rousseau and all the rest on "Start the Week" today. The people agree to hand sovereignty over to their representatives, but if their representatives let them down and are out of touch, they vote against them.

Sovereignty and democracy are entrusted to an elite by the people for a temporary period until the people are again asked what they want.

Elite forces always remain in power whichever side wins. The battle for democracy is about what ability the people have to hold an unaccountable, useless elite to account. If the elite are good and in touch, then the people are content.

What happened here is that some members of the elite backed the people who were discontent, and who said, as Guardian journalist, John Harris, reported "No one listens to us, no one cares" and together we have beaten the Establishment. We beat the "knight s who say Ni"

I'd expect a plan to include realistic projections of where public investment would compensate for leaving. For example, in science and in regions who receive EU funds. I would expect a clear picture of what the UK would want and would give once out.

The £350 million to the nhs wasn't a plan then?