Why the Remain campaign was so weak?

[SnowBells]

I was speaking to DH about this last night. I couldn't understand why the Remain campaign didn't do a better job, really, and concentrated on London too much (London was never going to be "Leave" territory). I work in finance, and we repeatedly had politicians come in from both camps to debate why we should vote for either side. Everyone knows George Osbourne was at JP Morgan, alongside its CEO, telling employees that thousands of jobs would be at risk, if the UK voted leave.

I can't find one single account where they did anything similar with car manufacturers up north. They would be similarly affected. If we left the EU, their jobs would be at risk. The "Remain" campaign was too London-centric, too focused on white collar voters, when London was always going to be a clear win for "Remain". It made people in other regions think they wouldn't be affected. That they didn't count. Most people vote based on what they think will affect them. So you have to tell them as plainly as possible how leaving the EU may impact their lives. It's what some US politicians excel at whether you like them or not.

I thought that Cameron should have attacked BoJo's lies more. But then my DH pointed out they were both from the same party. There was no unity within the same party. And that's the problem. Had BoJo and Gove been from another party, I think Cameron would have not have held back. In some ways, attacking BoJo and Gove properly would also mean weakening your own party. So, it was a bit 'party over country' to be honest.

What do you think?

I voted remain because I believe the UK should be an outward looking country, cooperating with our neighbours, encouraging the economies of poorer countries of Europe, (and the rest of the world via aid commitments) and striving for peace.

Surprised you thought the EU would be the vehicle for satisfying those desires. The EU is about creating an impregnable fortress of 28 countries shackled together in political union - it's the Leave side who want to deal with the rest of the world. The EU isn't doing much for it's poorer members either - judging by the tragedy that is now playing out in Greece.

People did not urn out for Remain because there is no compelling reason to Remain in the EU, so the Remain side had to spout Project Fear and Project Smear in the hope they could frighten people into voting to stay.

Who on earth would want to go out campaigning to spread fear and smear ? Nobody.
The first IN campaigner I saw throughout the entire campaign was at the Count on the night of the referendum.

Meanwhile leave were agreeing with the people we met who said they could see a better, safer stronger future - outside the EU

I'm sorry if this isn't the right thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new one:

Let's say Parliament votes against the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act. Will the EU still be able to throw us out? Will they be able to put conditions on our membership?

(Of course, I'm not saying Parliament will vote against it. Although the referendum is not legally binding, the Government promised to respect the will of the majority. I'm just considering all possibilities, since everything seems so uncertain right now.)

What the Remain camp refused to believe was that there could be 52% of the population for whom national sovereignty outweighed a love of money.

Yes, the Remain side represents hardcore Neo-Liberalism. They thought they could appeal to people's pockets and believed that others, like them, would put money above all else.

That was clearly not the case.

Bertrand, I am aware European nations can have differing relationships with the EU such as Norway and Switzerland. And believe me, I only post my educational background on these threads as a counter-balance to the 'Leavers are all uneducated' slurs that have been bandied about.

I think Remainers need to accept that not all people who voted Leave were naive, dim-witted racists who swallowed lies. To insinuate such things is disgraceful and says far more about the Remainers who claim such things than those people they are trying to demonise.

"I think Remainers need to accept that not all people who voted Leave were naive, dim-witted racists who swallowed lies."
Happy to accept that. It is a bit of a shame that Leavers seem to be spending an inordinate amount of time defending themselves from an accusation that very few people have actually made, rather than explaining why they voted and what they hope to gain from their vote. And when they do, it often turns out to be because of misunderstandings or misapprehensions. Like saying that we can "go it alone" like Switzerland or Norway.....

I didn't vote leave because I wanted the UK to be like Norway or Switzerland. 'Go it alone' can mean lots of different things. Like I said in my last post.

Please stop insinuating that I voted because of misunderstandings or misapprehensions. I'm sure lots of people on both sides DID. But I for one did not.

"The first IN campaigner I saw throughout the entire campaign was at the Count on the night of the referendum. "

That's interesting. My DH was also out campaigning and has yet to meet a single Leave voter.

Very good question SnowBells. The fact fact fact whole project fear thing about what would happen if we did leave was meaningless to a lot of people who might not have much to lose in the first place. You can see how 'taking back control' might be appealing. If it had only been the 'official' leave campaign (i.e. without the millions pumped into Nigel Farage's campaign), I doubt they would have won. Evidence of significant EU funding doesn't seem to do it (though could have been better information at a local level). Evidence that migration brings positive economic and social benefits doesn't do it either (though that would have been a really progressive campaign. I would like to see that very much). Media also to blame. Who wants endless talking heads. Surely an opportunity to make British MEPs accountable?! Want to harangue someone in Europe? Here is the person you voted for.

I don't give a donkey's dick how my Leave vote is perceived or how many Bregretters are rueing their decision (not very many). These are exciting times and it is magnificently gratifying to know Great Britain is no longer to be viewed through the myopic lens of a neoliberal London.