Why the Remain campaign was so weak?

[SnowBells]

I was speaking to DH about this last night. I couldn't understand why the Remain campaign didn't do a better job, really, and concentrated on London too much (London was never going to be "Leave" territory). I work in finance, and we repeatedly had politicians come in from both camps to debate why we should vote for either side. Everyone knows George Osbourne was at JP Morgan, alongside its CEO, telling employees that thousands of jobs would be at risk, if the UK voted leave.

I can't find one single account where they did anything similar with car manufacturers up north. They would be similarly affected. If we left the EU, their jobs would be at risk. The "Remain" campaign was too London-centric, too focused on white collar voters, when London was always going to be a clear win for "Remain". It made people in other regions think they wouldn't be affected. That they didn't count. Most people vote based on what they think will affect them. So you have to tell them as plainly as possible how leaving the EU may impact their lives. It's what some US politicians excel at whether you like them or not.

I thought that Cameron should have attacked BoJo's lies more. But then my DH pointed out they were both from the same party. There was no unity within the same party. And that's the problem. Had BoJo and Gove been from another party, I think Cameron would have not have held back. In some ways, attacking BoJo and Gove properly would also mean weakening your own party. So, it was a bit 'party over country' to be honest.

What do you think?

I agree with everything Juneau says, down to the dithering which way to vote.

Bullying?

Is bullying a new word for explaining the facts?

Since Tony Bliar told us in no uncertain terms we had to go to war in 2003, I expect some people believe that politicians are not be trusted with anything, and taking the view that if a politician (especially the prime minister) really insists on something, and really rams it down our throats like Bliar did with the weapons of mass destruction, the less credible they are.

But they didn't explain the facts.
Lots of people who voted Leave didn't know what they were voting against, and for.

They hammered down the facts and the negative messages, they didn't explain them.

Lots on TV and radio about the anniversary of WWI brings it home to many people.

Welsh people are not made aware of how much of their infrastructure and lifestyle (including Welsh language TV channel) has been paid for by EU grants and funding.

I think Osborne and Cameron lost the referendum when they announced the "punishment budget" and in particular the cut to pensions. People aren't stupid. Their heads knew that the threat was bollocks and their hearts knew that it was morally wrong.

Agree SnowBells, "preaching to the choir" is easy and fun, but not very effective.

Yes - bullying. What else would you call threatening a 'punishment budget'?

It felt like there was a real lack of unity from the main parties. A collective effort, as a united force from The in tories, Labour, LibDems & SNP, would have obliterated the remain campaign. Instead, Tim Fallon disappeared, Corbyn was in denial, Sturgeon alienated anyone south of the border & DC seemed to irk most non tories.
In hindsight, Ruth Davidson & a Labour MP who truly believed in remain, should have been the figureheads of the campaign

Welsh people are not made aware of how much of their infrastructure and lifestyle (including Welsh language TV channel) has been paid for by EU grants and funding.

Any argument about EU funding was countered by the £350 million/week argument. Didn't Leave claim that Wales would just be funded by Westminster instead?

I think Osborne and Cameron lost the referendum when they announced the "punishment budget" and in particular the cut to pensions

Um, I don't want to burst your bubble but pensions have dropped in value, although they've gone back up a bit, experts are saying this is just the start and they will likely drop again. Ya know those very experts who told us they'd tank in the first place?

The facts were there if you looked for them. Not a single financial institution in the world thought that this was a good idea. They just weren't sexy, make believe slogans liek "Take back control" or "make britain great again" with no explanation as to how we could do this probably because we can't do this

Also, Osborne has said that cuts and tax increases will be part of the next budget, so they weren't really threats. They were more along the lines of facts.

People who remember the war are 90 years old. I don't think that many 90 year olds voted.

juneau

Ehm... listening to people who know their shit is not bullying. God. Are you one of those parents who tell kids whatever their teacher says doesn't matter? The ones that bring up kids void of the need to learn?!? So I guess you've never been to university and listened to the very same experts?

There's a reason business leaders are business leaders, you know! Maybe if you actually, sat, listened and learned, you'd be one, too. And you know what? Many of the men who fought in the war voted remain. Because they knew that the unity over the last few decades created peace in the EU. That's HOW the EU was born! Because they thought without some sort of union, another war would come. I read a very moving account about this.

It's their spoilt post-war babies that never learned this that took what they fought so hard for for granted.

... and to think this referendum was won because the votes of people who don't even know what the EU stood for.

Winston Churchill was one of the founding fathers, for Christ's sake. It's not like the UK was just pulled into it without having had a choice! The UK actually helped create it.

If you don't believe me... go to the EU website and click "About the EU > History". It was Winston Churchill who called for the creation of a United States of Europe.

europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/founding-fathers/index_en.htm

I guess the UK's education system must have gone to shit. Luckily, I was educated in the EU.

Before you get on your high horse snowbells I voted to Remain.

And no, I don't tell my kids to ignore what their teachers say

And I have an MA from a Russell Group university.

But I can see where Remain went wrong. Their constant negativity was a mistake. Wheeling out Barack Obama to tell the British people that they will go 'to the back of the queue' if they dare to vote leave (no American would ever say the word 'queue' btw), wasn't, IMO, a clever move. I felt lectured. Maybe you didn't, but I did, and I didn't think it was an intelligent way to run the Remain campaign.

Oh and my degree was in History

So put that in your EU-educated pipe and smoke it. Peace!

The Remain Campaign was so negative because they thought that "Project Fear" worked in the Scottish Referendum and they could repeat that again.

Also, because it was being led by the Conservatives, many of the positive things that have come from the EU, like workers' rights (including maternity, holidays, working hours), environmental protection, health and safety, consumer protection, are things that don't fit with their political dogma, so they couldn't find it in themselves to remind people of them.

Even the TTIP argument couldn't be used, as the Tories would've signed it 2 years ago (with no protection for the NHS and other public services why would they want that, they're planning on privatising them anyway ) and it's the French and Germans who're delaying it, putting in protections and may well veto it.

The media is also culpable: where were their challenging questions, their demands for "Plan B" and C and D, the way that the Yes Campaign was challenged during the IndyRef?

I'm not blaming the Remain campaign. I think they thought it was a no-brainer and enough people would see through all the lies.

But WHY do people feel lectured?!

I mean... if you feel lectured by Obama (who I'd gladly take lessons from), I don't even know what to say. That's really weird and a little "I'm too great to be lectured."

RG uni here, too.

snowbellss comments are actually an excellent example of where the Remain campaign went wrong, from her angry, condescending tone to her assumption that anyone who disagrees with her is an uneducated moron.

It would have been a no-brainer, if some people weren't stupid and some people weren't racist! It's all very well to say 'we didn't like the constant negativity and the experts giving their views': the constant negativity was entirely justified, and the expert views were.... expert views! It's just we have this awful combination of small-mindedness and anti-intellectualism which, sadly, won the day.

Perhaps they over-estimated the general population and thought that saying 'the pound will weaken, businesses will move away, and we will not have the same trade deals' was explanation enough. But maybe they should have said 'the pound will weaken which is bad because our currency is worth less and you will not get as many euros so your things that you want to buy on your holidays will cost you more, and businesses will move away which is a bad thing because if you work in a business that means your job will not be there, and it's bad if we don't have the same trade deals because when companies can't do deals, they can't function, and if you work in a company that isn't functioning that's bad news for you, because if you don't have a job that's not very nice'. So I don't think it's so much that the elite ignored the poor as that they thought people were a bit brighter than they apparently are.

I agree with juneau. You asked why the remain campaign was weak OP and Juneau had pointed out some reasons why. As have other posters.

(no American would ever say the word 'queue' btw)

Except for this one, who did. This tired old chestnut can be easily explained by remembering that Obama is quite a bright guy who gives speeches in a number of cultures and countries, so might be aware of such linguistic differences, and he might also have had an advisor who might have said 'yup, great speech Barack, but one tiny thing: the Brits say queue, not line, so maybe amend the phrase there, yeah?'.

He's not a script writer for Fraiser, who writes Mancunians saying 'as long as you're here, I guess I'll go turn on the faucet and fill the tub for you so you can go take a bath.'