Corbyn still hanging in there

[NightWanderer]

I actually quite admire that. Hanging tough. I think it shows a sharp contrast to Cameron who can't get out of things soon enough.

Could Corbyn actually be the next PM?

[merrymouse]

I think it's the nature of his campaigning for Remain that has annoyed so many MP's. He seemed completely unable to engage with the concerns of people whose opinions weren't in line with his, and seems content to carry on preaching to the choir of his existing supporters.

To get elected, you can't just wave around posters saying 'Tory scum'. You have to assume that people aren't scum and persuade them to vote for you. The only way you can actually get the 'Tories out, out, out' is to get UKIP and Tory voters to vote for the Labour party. What do his supporters expect the rest of the electorate to do? Emigrate?

[merrymouse]

UKIP may not have won seats, but their votes certainly unseated labour MPs.

After the referendum, it is clear that Gove/Johnson are glossing over what they promised and why people thought they were voting. This leaves a very clear niche for UKIP to occupy.

[merrymouse]

Being "Good and Principled" is great. However, if you want to lead a country of 60 million people, you are going to have to lead many good and principled people whose version of good and principled is different to your own.

You need to be able to listen and compromise. JC has shown no ability to do this. That isn't to say that his voice isn't needed, but it's a fantasy to believe that he could be Prime Minister, or given his lack of ability to listen to anybody but his supporters, that he would be a good one.

[tilder]

Yy merrymouse. Corbyn has a small group of left wing labour who love him. But if labour is ever to be a serious opposition again, let alone form a government, they have to widen their appeal.

He seems incapable of that. He is principled, unfortunately those principles are not those that will gather wide spread support. They are too left wing for the majority.

Our country is wonderful in its diversity. That includes diversity in opinions and values. To win an election, you have to take the majority along with you. No just preach to the minority who are already followers.

Ffs. Politics makes me so angry at the moment. Our choice is right wing tories, who fucked up royally and don't seem to have any plans, or labour who smugly say 'I'm right and I will not bend' even though they are becoming a minority fringe party.

Leaving a massive gulf in the centre ground. Love it or loath it, this is where elections are won. We need a strong united government now and there seems to be no nobody to deliver.

[Moonax]

Leaving a massive gulf in the centre ground.

This is my biggest concern. A gaping vaccuum like that is an open invitation for the next charismatic soother to step in and rampage to a landslide for no better reason than he or she sounds as though they're in control. That's just fine if it's someone who is genuinely centre ground, but I'm thinking that if Our Nigel sees a whiff of serious political power, he's going to jump right in and bring all of UKIP with him.

That's not a centre ground I want to see.

[tilder]

Me neither moonax. Hence why I want to see the back of Corbyn.

[Moonax]

Tilder, I think you have a point. Andy Burnham seems to be keeping his head down and would probably have a good case for being Labour leader. He's got Hillsborough integrity on his side and as far as I know, nothing particularly squalid has yet been revealed about him. He'd be able to claim support from populace and PLP - guessing this may be his time.

[howtorebuild]

I voted for him. I won't again as we can't win with him. I have been shouted at on the doorstep and phone, told no way with him as leader, as he is so disliked by loyal Labour voters. I am not wasting my time volunteering for a protest party again, I want us to win. He has no vote and no grassroots support from me anymore.

[houseofpain]

I don't think attitudes developed out of years of pent up frustration and anger at being ignored were ever going to be changed by anyone else in such a short time (I voted remain btw). Blaming Corbyn is just an excuse to get rid of him. Everyone predicted Tooting by election was in danger and they increased their majority. Of course Cirbyn can't bed refuted with that or any other by election or mayoral victory. I do despair watching this unfold.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

Andy Burnham seems to be keeping his head down and would probably have a good case for being Labour leader

He'said keeping his head down because he wants the Mayor nomination.

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

*He's

[BungoWomble]

Andy Burnham comes across to me as another faintly slimy person who'll say anything to grab power. Surely we can finally all see where that leads now?

I am absolutely disgusted by all these central politicians who are all so busy ignoring the effects of their little internal London power struggles on the rest of the country. I have no words beyond disgust for the selfishness of that Benn who couldn't even wait for the markets to settle down let alone negotiations to start before showing up the central vacuousness of them all. It really is time for completely new people who can see beyond that. That is why Corbyn got the support he did and will still have a lot there. I think I'd quite like to see him and his supporters split off now and form a new party. As someone upthread said there is room for more grassroots parties in the UK and the old 2 party system has been shown to be hopelessly inadequate once again.

Off-topic, but it is also time, once the mess has settled down, to make serious noises about getting the government out of London. This focus on one city and its needs has to stop. It puts too many bad influences, money and power most notably, in one place. London's parliamentary buildings are falling down anyway. York is the obvious and traditional choice especially if we have any chance of keeping Scotland; else I'd favour somewhere central but small, not too commercial. Stoke, Derby, Doncaster? Somewhere obviously suffering from the central focus would do very nicely.

[merrymouse]

I think it is quite likely that more left wing Labour party members will split off and form a different party which might get a few council members but will struggle to get MPs elected. Maybe there will be a complete reorganisation and a new centre party will also emerge.

However, whichever way you cut it, Corbyn is never going to become Prime Minister, because he can't communicate with anyone who doesn't already agree with him, and realistically most people in the UK don't share all his points of view.

[merrymouse]

but it is also time, once the mess has settled down, to make serious noises about getting the government out of London

At the moment I think London would gladly get rid of the rest of England.

[Auti]

Bless Jeremy, one of the few conviction politicians left.

If Corbyn goes, who do ordinary working class people vote for?

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

he has a lot of support from labour party members (not even 1/2 million people so no government changing number) not from the public voting has showed that

his arrogance has shown through, the lefts obsession with Blairites and the in fighting is preventing the party from moving on and getting on with work they need to do

but he will be happy keeping it this way split the party while the tory party pull themselves together and next election we will wonder why we do not get in power

[wowfudge]

The selfishness of Benn? What about Corbyn, his half-hearted campaigning and his failure to communicate with his own shadow cabinet in the aftermath of the referendum?

[ErrolTheDragon]

You should ask who a lot of ordinary working class voters will choose if he stays. And also who ordinary middle class moderates will be left with.

[GlassCircles]

I don't have a problem with his political views, but his focus is much too narrow - he basks in the adulation of his admirers and resolutely ignores the need for HIM to do anything about engaging with the media and wider audience.

He hides behind McDonnell and whinges about the media 'being mean' to him - he should have grown a pair and got out there and projected a compelling public image so that his MPs would have something to get behind. Sadly it's probably too late for that now.

[lalalonglegs]

He's lost no confidence vote 172-40. How much longer can he last?

[wowfudge]

I give him until 6pm.

[howtorebuild]

Angela speaking on BBC news just now was very impressive.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

He may have lost a no confidence vote, but party members will vote him back in.

[NewLife4Me]

I don't know much but just from looking at my area I know that if corbyn goes or isn't PM then Farage has won.
There was so much support for him last time and to beat this Labour need someone who has support, this is Corbyn, despite what you read and hear in the media.
There is a sense of the people v establishment atm and Corbyn and farage represent the people. Conservative are just not capable of doing this.

[SkyRabbit]

I think it's incredibly sad that he's lost the vote. He's one of the few politicians left with integrity. I think, unfortunately, he has to go now though. The media, and many of those in his own party have consistently and perniciously had it in for him - remember the Remembrance Day fiasco, when, away from the cameras, Corbyn was the only one to actually talk to people and care?
Those who resigned yesterday and today have been waiting for a moment like this since the day JC became leader. They've got their wish, but I'm not sure it will be everything they thought it was.


I'm in a Labour heartland oop North. We voted to remain (just!) and he has a lot of support up here. He's given people something/someone to believe in.

If he goes, I won't vote Labour, and I'll be withdrawing my membership (not that they'll care!) Predominantly because Labour will swing more to the centre, and that's not what I want my leftist party to do.