eu citizens and the brexit vote

[xmasadsboohiss]

I've lived here for over twenty years and have worked and paid taxes and am in the process of raising a family. So I could almost be one of Mr Farage's 'ordinary, decent' people. Except my passport comes from an EU country so I guess that, in his eyes, that rules me out of that particular tranche of society.

I'm hurt on a personal level by the vote - talk of 'Getting our country back' is so upsetting. I for one was unaware that I or any of my fellow EU citizens had stolen it! I'm also troubled by the realisation that the country I have lived in for most of my adult life, and which I thought of as open, welcoming and progressive may not be so. Do I want to raise my children in a place that prides itself in looking inwards rather than outwards? Hmmm.

And then of course there are the practicalities. I'm an EU citizen and one of the implicit aims of the Leave campaign was to push British people at the top of the queue for jobs. So my job prospects are by definition impacted despite years of hard work and contribution to this country on my part.

Now I know there are many words of reassurance coming from politicians but frankly why should I believe any of it? This is new to everyone so anything can happen.

To me whether I am being unreasonable or not is neither here nor there. I'm sad and I'm worried.

fakenamefornow I agree massive devaluation not just of the pound but also of British citizenship.
That's another thing that makes me feel so sad - to think of all the adventures I've had - being an Erasmus student, working as an au pair, getting my first job abroad... it already feels like a lost golden age.

No Irish grandparents unfortunately, I've already checked my possibility of getting an EU passport, no chance anywhere for me or my children.

Homsa

I agree, I would do anything to keep my EU passport, even if the price was my British passport. Sorry OP, having a moan on your thread, I'm just so sad.

fakename absolutely no need to apologise at all! I really do sympathise - plenty of friends have expressed similar concerns to me. There are so many unpleasant and sometimes unforeseen consequences for all of us already that I dread to think what might be in store over the next few years.

Have just been listening to 'Today In Parliament' and also reading about Teresa May's comments. So not even two weeks after the vote and EU citizens are already being used as pawns and potential 'bargaining chips'. I thought this would happen but I didn't really see it coming quite this quickly. From dull as ditch water tax paying resident to potential bargaining chip in two weeks - don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Absolutely xmas. Same here . Thanks adult your posts are a constant reminder not to take any notion of common sense or fairness for granted.

Unbelievable in this day and age.

I've done a bot of research and contacted my own country (equivalent of the MPs here representing us 'immigrants in the UK') and I've asked them about the Permanent Resident Card.

The answer from different places has been the same. Getting this card is a must to protect ourselves from the risk of being quicked out (just in case they decide that they want to be totally out of the EU/EEA AND don't want any EU citizens staying over/have very strict rules similar to the ones in place for non EU citizens).

I thought it was wroth highlighting. 'm not really sure of how many people know about it.

I have to say, I'm still not used to the idea that I am an 'immigrant' here :(

if you're entitled to it, there's no reason NOT to get the Permanent Resident Card!

it doesn't cost much (especially compared to a visa), and it's an extra layer of protection.

What has happened to the EU concept of 'legal certainty'? I thought that this protected those who enjoyed the rights guaranteed to them by their EU citizenship when they moved into another EU country.

I strongly believe that immigration can be a good thing but it needs controls.

There should be a points system in place and that should of been done years ago.

I personally voted leave as it was my only option to raise awareness with the government that not everybody is happy with the influx of people arriving here.

Some not all with zero skills, money, or support.

A points system would help the economy.

Interesting citroen I wonder if EU citizens in Britain can form a civil society and get legal aid?

Grass correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't get the impression this was a thread about debating in ins and outs of immigration? I believe this is a thread where EU citizens living in Britain or British citizens living in other EU countries who face uncertainty and might loose many things dear to them to exchange useful information and offer support. Trumpeting about your points system is ever so slightly insensitive here?

OP I have not read the whole thread yet, but your two first post echo completely my feeling and what I have been going through too. You are not alone (but you knew that already! )

Rosie - how about the other posters that have comment on this?

I am wondering something.

If you have lived in the UK your entire working life, what happens to your pension if you leave?

If you have not worked in, say France or Norway, will you be entitled to a pension or anything there? Will the UK keep paying pensions to people who live Britain, or will they be penniless in their old age?

Surely if you are in your 40s and decide you cant handle the uncertainty, xenophobia and racism, and you feel you have no choice but to leave, how will this affect your pension and your benefits in your old homeland?

My understanding (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) is that you should be entitled to your pension even if you live now in France or Germany.
You roukdng get it from France even if you are living in France and you are a French citizen because you've never paid anything to the system.
I think some countries allow to transfer your pension from one to the other but I'm
Not aware this is possibility between the uk and other eu countries

Quint: check with your HR to get the definite answer. The general rule is, if you leave the country for good and has been contributing to NI then you are entitled to get your pre-tax portion of NI for state pension back(I dont know the calculation however know my friend who had his done). If you have extra private pension then you could move to your new permanent resident location or decide what to do with it too. HR is the best place where you can have advices on your own situation

Oh that's a good thing to know you might be able to transfer!!

Another place you can ask is any MP that would represent people who have moved abroad.
Not sure which country you are from, by in France we have MP that represent French citizens outside France
At the moment, we have a 'senateur' (another elected member of parliament) whobis going round the country to answer questions about Brexit and the effect on us. That would be the sort of person I would contact to learn more about my rights. Maybe there is something similar in your country? With the embassy maybe?

I am an EU citizen and I do feel like a "bargaining chip" lately. If I am honest, I avoid talking to people who I know voted Leave.

I would leave UK for another EU country for I don't feel welcome anymore, however my children were born here and their dad (my ex) is British and I cannot deprive them of contact with their dad.

But of course none of this matters because I am an immigrant and I should go home.

I will apply for UK residence card, unfortunately cannot do it straight away due to lots of travel planned. But I will not give up my EU passport for British citizenship. Though, I do wonder what happens if I cannot work anymore? Or retire? I will not meet "points" anymore and so will be "sent home"? I am lucky to have a well paid job at the moment and all my dreams to take a part-time job so I can have more time with my kids have been shattered.

The immediate consequences following a BREXIT according to the Constitutional Society. I haven't read it but it was a link on one a British expats in the Netherlands sites (am based in NL).
www.consoc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Brexit-PDF.pdf

In the Dutch press this morning, Farage was the big BREXIT story followed by George Osborne's intention to cut corporation tax. This would make it the lowest in Europe.

cat can't you get a dual citizenship?
I'm planning to apply for the British citizenship at some point (need to the Permanent residence card first) and I won't be able to do it until I'm back from my boils this summer.
But I know I can have both (as my dcs do)

The right to permanent residency is an EU right. If you have lived in another EU country for more than 5 years you can apply for permanent residency. There are no conditions.

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/eu-nationals-permanent-residence/index_en.htm

If you move to another European country after state pension age you get the state pension paid and it is currently index linked as if you were in the UK. If you move before pension age and work again (I only know about France) then your health caisse claims for you but you still receive the pension, plus any pension accrued in France. You pay tax on the state pension in France. Occupational pensions are also taxed in France unless they are government pensions like teachers. Those are taxed in the UK.
I pay tax in both countries after thirty years of paying tax and NI in the UK before retirement.
Health care is not free, 70% is paid by the UK under an EU reciprocal agreement, which will have to be re- negotiated. We pay the other 30% in top-up insurance (about 1800€ a year).
The huge uncertainties for UK pensioners living in the EU are continued residence and health insurance. The UK might be able (if it wanted) to agree to continue health cover but can obviously make no guarantees about residence.

Cat - can you use the Nationality Checking Service to apply for a residence card? They take copies of all your documents/passports so that you can keep them and travel as needed.

I did this today for my citizenship application - it was very easy to do.

The woman processing mine said that they've had a huge increase in applications since last week and have called in people to do a lot of overtime in the effort to maintain the six month target.