eu citizens and the brexit vote

[xmasadsboohiss]

I've lived here for over twenty years and have worked and paid taxes and am in the process of raising a family. So I could almost be one of Mr Farage's 'ordinary, decent' people. Except my passport comes from an EU country so I guess that, in his eyes, that rules me out of that particular tranche of society.

I'm hurt on a personal level by the vote - talk of 'Getting our country back' is so upsetting. I for one was unaware that I or any of my fellow EU citizens had stolen it! I'm also troubled by the realisation that the country I have lived in for most of my adult life, and which I thought of as open, welcoming and progressive may not be so. Do I want to raise my children in a place that prides itself in looking inwards rather than outwards? Hmmm.

And then of course there are the practicalities. I'm an EU citizen and one of the implicit aims of the Leave campaign was to push British people at the top of the queue for jobs. So my job prospects are by definition impacted despite years of hard work and contribution to this country on my part.

Now I know there are many words of reassurance coming from politicians but frankly why should I believe any of it? This is new to everyone so anything can happen.

To me whether I am being unreasonable or not is neither here nor there. I'm sad and I'm worried.

[blendedfamilygrinch]

If you can take dual nationality, are you considering applying for British citizenship?
I have concerns about a 2nd referendum, but if there is to be one and the 3 million EU citizens resident in the UK are able to vote in it, could be a very different outcome....

[Chalalala]

I could apply for citizenship. That was my original plan in case of a "Leave" victory.

Right now I really don't want to anymore. It just feels wrong to take a citizenship out of fear and disappointment. That's not the way it should be.

I'll probably become more rational about it once I move on from the anger stage, mind you. I don't know how many EU residents live in the UK who are also eligible for citizenship, surely much less than 3 million?

[MyMacMess]

Human rights is not my area of expertise so please bear with my ignorance.

As EU citizens working in the UK many of us have paid into pension schemes here, have bought properties and have our dc in education.

Fucking hell, isn't it against our EU citizen / human rights in terms of self-determination that we were not allowed to vote in these elections and take part in making decisions that have far reaching consequences?

[xmasadsboohiss]

I could I think apply for British citizenship given that I have been here so long - I also had a British grandparent although I'm not sure what difference that makes. Again though it feels like an odd thing to have to do to be allowed to remain in the country, having been here for so long already. Any time national identity cards are suggested in this country people kick up a stink. I never had an issue with the idea of that as everyone would have to do it, but being suddenly singled out as a group feels most unnerving.

[xmasadsboohiss]

Not my area of expertise either but MyMac but it certainly doesn't stack up does it? Add to that the fact that you can soon say sayonara to any notion of an EU bill of human rights being applicable in the UK and it begins to look worrying indeed.

[Nittyb]

Do remember 48% of us voted to remain, I'm deeply saddened that this has made you feel so unsettled, I feel the need the apologise for the other 52% ..... still can't believe it.

[stickygotstuck]

Chalalala: "It just feels wrong to take a citizenship out of fear and disappointment. That's not the way it should be."

This, a hundred times.

I signed a petiton asking for the vote in this referendum for all EU citizens who had settled here for a number of years. Of course, the answer was no. But the issue remains. I pay taxes for nigh on 20 years, contribute to society, blah blah blah. But I have no say.
This is the reason I started thinking of applying for UK nationality. Now it feels wrong.

Hopefully, this feeling will ease...

[xmasadsboohiss]

Thank you so much Nittyb - comments like yours are genuinely comforting.

[RortyCrankle]

Nittyb
Do remember 48% of us voted to remain, I'm deeply saddened that this has made you feel so unsettled, I feel the need the apologise for the other 52% ..... still can't believe it.

When I want you to apologise on my behalf I'll ask for it. How fucking superior can you get to think you speak on behalf of thousands of people. Get over yourself.

I suggest you read my post which is second on this thread where I am perfectly capable of setting out my own thoughts on the subject.

[scaryteacher]

At the very least I expect a thick envelope to be landing on my doormat within in the next few years requiring me to register my residency or some such I am a Brit living in Belgium; everyone carries an ID card here to prove their right of residency; the police come round to check that you are living at the address given. The policewoman who came round to my new address was most disconcerted that we don't have ID cards in the UK, as she couldn't understand how we kept tabs on/controlled the population.

[scaryteacher]

MyMacMess I'm curious, is your Albanian cleaner legal? Albania is in NATO, but hasn't yet acceded to the EU, so how can she work there, presuming you are in UK?

[MyMacMess]

Haha why would you like to know teacher?

Do you reckon I am employing an illegal migrant . Luckily I am not employing her at all as she works for a company owned by a Polish (!) business woman. I have not bothered asking my cleaner why she is in the UK as it is non of my business, wouldn't you agree?

She is lovely though and I hugged her this morning in soppy EU solidarity. She is very happy and settled here and loves that her two dc go to an excellent school in our area. I can't blame her.

The Polish business owner who, before expanding her business, cleaned my house is amazing: super smart, found a niche in the cleaning market and I am very happy with the service her company provides. Her dc has recently won a scholarship to one of the UK's most prestigious, selective private schools. I have massive respect for her and her dc must be smart and hard working. They are striving to better themselves which is admirable, wouldn't you agree teacher?

[xmasadsboohiss]

Rorty with the greatest respect to your views I think we all have to be understanding. I think it's okay for people who supported remain to feel very sad about it. Imagine if the result had turned out the other way, as it so easily could have done. Leave supporters would most certainly be unhappy and would I suspect be mounting a legal challenge against the extension of voter registration.

I really do think we're in for tough times so I think Leave supporters need to give Remainers the space to grieve (and I don't think that's an exaggeration) for what they are about to lose.

[Mellifera]

Cha
Exactly my feelings. Why should I apply for a British passport when I feel European? I'm a German Londoner.
Brexit has made us think about a plan B. Because it is not the country we wanted to live in anymore. Multicultural, tolerant, open-minded.
I can't stop feeling slapped in the face, after 12 years of paying taxes and NI contributions.
I'm just incredibly sad. We have enough opportunities to go back to Germany, we both have jobs we can do anywhere.

[xmasadsboohiss]

Mellifera I think if I was in your position I would go back. I'm from a poorer EU country and my partner is British so it's much more complicated. I wish you all the luck in the world whatever you decide to do.

[Chalalala]

Why should I apply for a British passport when I feel European

That's exactly it Mellifera. It would feel like validating this madness.

Right now I'm wishing I could go back to France, but DH's French is nowhere near good enough for his line of work.

I really, really hope that a better and stronger EU can emerge out of this. That'd be my only consolation, but not sure how likely it's looking right now.

[PlatoTheGreat]

Can only agree with all that has been said on this thread.
Since Friday I have this feeling that half of the people around me don't want to see me here.
I'm much more self concious about using my mother tongue with the dcs out and about (actually have noticed I'm switching to Emglish, which I've never done before).
I also always have that question in my mind 'have people noticed my accent? What are they thinking?' (My accent is noticeable but very hard to place iyswim.)

At some point, I will get the births citizenship just as DH will get the French one. We are just trying to protect our family from being separated.
I don't feel British though and DH certainly dioesn't feel French but c'est la vie isn't it?

[xmasadsboohiss]

It certainly is!

Taking on dual nationality isn't something I'd take lightly to be honest.

With ref to the poster above who spoke about identity cards in Belgium - I'd have no objection if everyone had them, but the thrust of the Leave argument was about putting British people first and as the Brexiters will be calling the shots for the forseeable future I can't see identity cards coming in for British nationals. EU citizens living here are likely to have them though I think.

[rybka13]

I am sort of bitter glad I found that thread. So I am not being unreasonable? As an EU citizen I worked here 10 years, payed taxes, pensions and whatever. Both me and husband being Polish every now and again we were talking about getting British citizienship but there are always better ways of spending £2.5K with two kids of school age. Now we feel we f**d little bit but in the same time we not sure we actually want to be here anymore. Anyway citizenship won't give us posh accents so we still going to be that famous "Polish vermin".Plus after 10 years of working as a professional I find English language exam level B1 rather a humiliating joke. Mind you, I still didn't get my vermin leaflet so maybe should't complain?
Strangely enough after school run in the morning I noticed couple of people avoiding eye contact with me, it is a small town, everybody knows you so from usual friendly banter to "Hello" and do runner makes you thinking. Guilt trip? Legitimaised "F..k off foreigners"? IABU and they just have a bad day today?

[PlatoTheGreat]

You're not the only one.

The Englisg test is a joke (I did one to be able to do a course. I remember peolpe looking at me like if I was carzy because I just turned up not even kowing whjat they would aks me to do, let alone done some teste before etc... Thyere was anopther British guy there who was doing the same test - Yes I know ...- to be able to emigrate to Australia)

But I know (and other EU nationals like us have told me the same thing) that my first reaction was to look around and think 'Well half of these people have just voted to kick me out'.
Most people have also avoided talking about that subject with me too, incl my british PIL.

This will settle down I hope.
I'm not sure that the racist incidents will do so very soon.

[tabulahrasa]

"We're not so happy about the percentage of the prison population that come from the EU nor those who come but have no intention of working and believe they and their families should be returned to their countries. I don't think that is unreasonable."

But the UK government has the legal power to stop criminals from entering, they just don't use it and they would have had the power to deny benefits to immigrants.

So that only leaves immigration for workers and their families left.

[xmasadsboohiss]

rybka You are most definitely not being unreasonable. There is such a strange atmosphere at the moment.

I'm off to London for the anti Brexit rally on Saturday. Have no great faith in it making much difference but I feel so strongly I have to do something.

[fakenamefornow]

Actually, I think you're lucky to have EU citizenship. I'm British and it looks like l'm about to have my EU citizenship taken away from me against my wishes. I'm absolutely devastated by what's happened. I think the Albanian cleaner mentioned up thread was wrong, we haven't shot ourselves in the foot, we've shot ourselves in the face. I really fear for the future now.

xmasadsboohiss

How do I find out about anti Brexit action? I'm so desperate for this not to happen, it's an absolute catastrophe. I just hope and pray the EU don't back down on free movement and the UK signs up to a trade deal that includes this. I hate to think of my children's options limited.

[Homsa]

Same here. I've been living, working and raising a family here for almost 20 years. My DC see themselves as British. We speak English as a family (not DH's or my first language - we're from different EU countries). I thought we were completely integrated, but now I'm not so sure, and that just feels really, really bad.
But trying to be pragmatic about it.... permanent residence card and then dual citizenship it is for us. Just paid £150 for that stupid language test. Can you believe it, £150 for a 10-minute chat! And I've got a degree in translation studies. My chosen topic will be "Why Brexit is shit" I think
And there's the stupid Life in the UK test - which asks about the kings and queens but not the Education system! And the cost - over £4,000 for a family of four!

Will we ever need it? If Britain remains in the single market and has to accept freedom of movent as part of the deal, then we won't. If Britain leaves the single market, then life here would get so shit we'd probably choose to leave anyway....

[xmasadsboohiss]

fakename here you go - hope this link works

www.facebook.com/events/1732671000335981/

i know what you mean about the eu passport thing - do you have an irish grandparent? that's a sure fire way of getting an eu passport but leave it for a while - the irish passport office is snowed under!