Any other Remainers think this petition/another referendum is not the way forward?

[Meggymoodle]

Apologies if a thread has already been started on this - feel free to ignore this one!

I was an ardent remainer. I spent Friday morning crying every time I thought about my children's futures. However, this petition that has been signed by so many I think is wrong.

1. We are a democratic nation - the leave side "won". Apparently, many people have regrets now, well actually that's too late.

1. Another referendum would be massively unsettling and I think would cause civil unrest led by the far-right of the leave side (no I am NOT saying that all leavers are xenophobes and racists but there is an element that are).

1. How utterly weak would we appear on the global stage particularly in Europe? Even if we ran another referendum and voted to stay, the EU would laugh us out. Our deals would be nowhere near what they are now.

I think unfortunately, we have made our bed and now we have to lie in it. The only way forward is to prepare ourselves for a rocky ride and get on with it.

My credentials, for what it's worth - I studied the EU for 4 years at degree level and European politics at Masters levels. I studied in France for a year funded by the EU. I am at the very core European and I am deeply saddened by the result, but I really believe we have to move forward.

I agree. The whole episode has been an unmitigated clusterfuck IMO - poorly conceived and executed. But it's done now. There is enough tension and division already without pouring salt on the wound. Which is what a second referendum would do.

I'm devastated for what this means for ds's future and deeply unhappy but I don't think another referendum would achieve anything.

The LibDems are playing on the fears of the remainers by putting forth that platform. It is opportunistic and wrong. They do not address the idea that the EU will not just roll over and say "oh yeah, that's fine, back to business as usual." We've made a monumental change that has globally affected the markets and put the EU in turmoil. That is not going to go away. And if we do an about face, we lose credibility to the world. It would be a mistake to go that route.

Elements Dear God, do not even TALK about those three naked. I'll have to bleach my brain. Ick.

I completely agree, the result has happened and now we need to make the best of it.

Ginger, as a young person (very early 20s) I respect everyone's choice to vote for what's best for them. I can assure you that I would not be 'screaming in the streets' if my internet went down

I agree OP. Another referendum is not the way forward. It smacks of "No plebs, you got it wrong and we'll keep doing this until you all vote the way we want you to". To my mind there are 2 options. Either

1. Suck it up and go with the vote or
2. Treat the referendum as advisory, and brazen it out (i.e. dont leave the EU). I actually think there would be less civil unrest with this than with a second referendum, but I still wouldnt advise it.

There are actually worse outcomes than leaving the EU- like the entire population totally losing any faith they have in democracy.

Maybe Scotland will veto it.

People saying 'let's just get on with it' may be thinking in terms of the extrication process, the trade, but what the fuck about Scotland and Northern Ireland?

Scotland may or may not leave the uk, but Ireland has completely been dropped in the shit. Do we build a wall between them after all the years of trying to break down the divisions and create peace?

I agree withyou OP. Another referendum is not the answer.

I'm not signing it. It was a democratic vote in The modern sense of a democracy, and it would be inappropriate to hold another referendum without massive changes in context requiring it.

And Leave voters were not deceived. The accurate information was out there, repeated ad nauseum by Remainers. It wasn't hidden. People just heard it and dismissed it - or refused to listen at all. Which they are perfectly entitled to do in a democracy.

I am, however, very angry that THERE IS NO PLAN.

Kruck I didn't say everyone, but I know quite a few that consider "extreme poverty and struggling" to be the equivalent of not having TV and no internet. It does boggle the mind, does it not? That being said, I know some that are very resourceful and self sufficient and would survive anything.

It just seems to me that society now is more "throw away and buy another" than "make do and mend" if you see what I mean. A huge swath of society panic at the thought of rocky going over the next 5-10 years, whereas there are large numbers of people that HAVE been dealing with rocky going already, so figure this really is just another similar road, but with possibly a better outcome at the end. I cannot blame them for that, and I have to concede that there is every possibility that they are right and that this might well be a good decision in the long run. We shall see. I am going to try to remain positive about it.

As much as we would be hurt by the UK divorcing from the EU, I agree, a second referendum is going to make people even more racist and could result in a more clear Out vote.

The people have voted and that's it. It s is now up to Parliament to dod what they deem right.

I love how British politicians have mismanaged this country and use immigrants as scapegoats.

Thatcher, Blair, David Cameron, well done.

The opposition party in Scotland (I think it was anyway) said she'd checked with a constitutional legal advisor and he stated (after research) that it was not within Holyrood's power to block the Brexit. BBC reported on it yesterday.

Oh, and Tony Blair apparently thought it was prudent to go on facebook and state that it would be relatively easy to have another referendum, thus ramping up the chaos even further. There are thousands of people on his FB feed begging him to come back to Labour and take over leadership, saying "all is forgiven, come back, we need you."

Ugh. He's so ghastly. He and Boris should have a "Britain's next top Fame whore" competition.

I think all these former politicians and lower level politicians need to just be quiet and stop shit stirring at this point. Going on about forcing another referendum is just ramping up the chaos IMO.

The petition is already being investigated for fraud, so that's undermined it completely. A US source said it was estimated that only 300K names on it were legitimate (still looking for a link to that), so it'll be interesting to see. I wonder if Parliament will even address it until the investigation is cleared. People hijacking it to rack up loads of names has backfired in a big way. It can't even be taken seriously anymore.

Ginger I think that attitude stems from never having to make do and mend but I actually those with that attitude may surprise us all if they had to. I think the throw away and buy another attitude also stems from products not being made to last anymore. I can't afford to buy well made jeans so I have to buy new primark ones every time they fall apart . I will be taking a needle and thread to my OHs charity shop jumper later though .

I completely agree about the Tony Blair thing. Are they mad? He's a war criminal for goodness sake.

Kruck I really hope so. I'm sitting here right now sewing together a hole in my son's shirt, and I am rubbish with a needle, but needs must. Practice makes perfect, right? Although I refuse to try to darn socks, as it just seems to end up with an uncomfortable lump in the end of the sock.

Yes, I was horrified at how many people were inviting him back. I'd like to think Labour is more intelligent than that as a party. They did, however, make many errors with Corbyn - not supporting him from the outset and allowing him to develop into a formidable leader, and now kicking off an internal battle over leadership, just when we need consistency and stability. Not impressed.

Good grief - Blair in charge of the opposition is not what we need right now. The mind boggles.

It would also make us look unreliable, unstable, and indecisive. NOT something we want, when we're looking at negotiations of any kind

Um.

"it would make us look unreliable" etc?

We already are. From most of the non-english news reports Ive read, you can add 'very, very stupid" too. I'm not sure it can get worse, especially as some medias have picked up that apparently a lot of Leavers regret their vote. "why the fuck didn't you think about what you were doing" seems to be the summary.

having said that, I don't now think that the petition would help. Inappropriate wording now.

I do think that the best option is to sweep it under the carpet ... IF the EU will allow that. IF there was another referendum, it would have to overwhelmingly be in favour of Remain for any real legitimacy now. I don't think myself that that can happen.

100% agree. However upsetting, it's done. Time to make the best of it and hope that the leavers were right.

No it is not the way forward, people are signing it though as a protest

I don't think the EU will allow that. And if by some small chance they did, one of their first demands would be that we move to the Euro, IMO. They'll use the counter argument that the pound has currently closer to the Euro value now so it only makes sense, and if we want to show that we're REALLY committed to the EU this time, we need to join their currency to show that we're in it fully and not going to attempt to leave again. And we all saw how well the last discussion about moving to the Euro went with the public.

A referendum isn't a determiner of immediate decisions or action: it's posing a question to the electorate.

Action taken, on such a momentous issue, as a direct result of such a close margin, whether 'in' or 'out' got a majority is not advisable and a government shouldn't proceed on that basis as it threatens stability.

Yes, a threshold should deff have been built in (usually is for this type of political process). Imo the petition is a recognition of this danger, not a rejection of democracy or a bid to change the result.

I would think that the 'leavers' would be protesting too, lawfully, with petitions and protests, or worse, unlawfully, if we remained, as a done deal, on the basis of a near 50/50 of the turnout there was on that day.

I agree

And as for David Lammy what utter arrogance he has shown

George Osborne has made a statement plans were put in place and we have to move forward now

No, of course the petition is ridiculous.

Entertaining though. And fun to remember it was started by a Leave voter ready for when, as he thought, they lost!