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Brexit

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First Brexit employment casualties

616 replies

Stopyourhavering · 25/06/2016 15:02

dd graduated this week, happy times.....phoned this morning to say that 2 of her friends, who had also graduated ( business/law degrees) and been offered jobs had been telephoned by their prospective employers to say that because of Brxit, they were now basing their headquarters in Berlin rather than UK and would no longer be employing them......I fear this is just the start....I am so angry and upset for our youth. My ds and dd2 are so angry and feel betrayed....I wish 16 &17 year olds had been given a vote as I feel they had a better handle on the repercussions of Brexit

OP posts:
PattyPenguin · 25/06/2016 18:45

Re: Erasmus. I'm sure the scheme will go on. Particularly for language students - European universities will always need to exchange students. However, did the university mention the funding? The Erasmus scheme currently involves a grant, so a student who goes for two semesters basically gets a year of free education i.e. doesn't need to borrow anything from Student Finance for that time. I suspect that in future they will, so if you do 3 years in the UK and one abroad, you will need to borrow 4 years' worth of loans.

mathanxiety · 25/06/2016 18:46

...banks moan they can't find enough staff in London, they're going to struggle finding French or German speakers for those countries and they certainly can't get enough staff in Ireland, passporting regime or not.

Chuckling a little at your naivete there RubyBleu.

Ireland has a very pro business coalition government that represents the vast majority of the electorate.

Dublin is a nice place to live. And banks and other financial services relocating to Frankfurt and Berlin, etc., won't have any problems picking up French and German speakers.

Glasgow and Edinburgh are also nice places to live and if Scotland votes for independence and remains in the EU then they will only get nicer.

The only thing the UK had going for it apart from the English language was access to EU markets.

LaurieMarlow · 25/06/2016 18:46

Manon, native language proficiency entirely down to industry/company norms. I have 100s of acquaintances working in countries where they don't speak the language. Of course many learn for their own social interaction, but it is not a condition of employment and they work through English.

mamamea · 25/06/2016 18:46

" Its blaming the Remainers as if they are an enemy...."

The Remainers have declared war on the Brexiteers. That's clear.

The same thing has happened in the US, where the left has declared war on the right. They physically attacked Trump supporters. When someone tried to murder Trump recently, the majority response there on left-leaning sites was 'Shame he didn't'.

The fact is that the regressive left declared war on its opponents a long time ago, and this declaration of war is what delivered us Thursday's 'fuck you'.

Had the tone of this debate been something other than 'you vile racists, you are actual murderers, personally responsible for killing Jo Cox, you evil cunts' (and much the same, now , after the result), then those on the Leave side might have not gone that way.

As it is, even in defeat, Remain is continuing with the 'you people are too fucking stupid/old/racist' line against those who voted Leave. The (telephone!) polls might have shown people voting for Remain, but that was only because Remain attempted to embarrass people into voting for them, rather than actually present it as a debate to be won on facts.

The Remain rhetoric will mend NO fences, and it will continue to polarise and divide, and harden the hearts of the people who voted Leave. The literally millions of 'you stupid fuck'-type posts infecting the internet make it clear that it is not 'as if' Remainers are the enemy, but rather that Remain's enemy is everyone who voted 'Leave'.

Remain sending a million 'fuck you's to the Leave side will do NOTHING for the beliefs and values of the Remain side, just as it is doing NOTHING in America, where Trump is heading for victory in November, not in spite, but BECAUSE of the rhetoric from his opponents. People do not like being told they are too thick, or too old, or too racist, to have an opinion, and while they might STFU on Facebook, it will do nothing to stop them expressing their opinion in the ballot box.

Divide and deride from Remain delivered this election to Leave, and if it continues it will deliver the future to the heirs of Farage.

Muddlingthroughtoo · 25/06/2016 18:48

yeah, of course that happened.

ManonLescaut · 25/06/2016 18:54

Manon, native language proficiency entirely down to industry/company norms

This is true. But the common assumption that the British can simply work abroad in English is a fundamental misconception.

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 25/06/2016 19:04

My brother's best friend's cousin who works in the pub overheard a man saying his wife's friend's brother said the sky was falling.
It's definitely true.

Grin
Never seen so many chicken-lickens as today - hysteria is unbelievable.

Girlgonewild · 25/06/2016 19:05

I don't think the Trump comparison with Remain is fair. Most decent people with adequate knowledge in the UK voted remain. I spoke to someone in the US yesterday by phone - he was pro remain and yet said could we please keep trump over here in the UK as they don't want him back. Remain does not equal Trump.

However Brexit will make economic conditions worse and it is the less fortunate, those who voted for leave who will be sadly on the receiving end of that. We warned them but they chose not to listen.

Let us take one example -Cornwall, get masses of EU aid to keep it going as there is not much business there and few jobs. What did it do? Voted to leave. It has had £1 billion of EU aid over the last 15 years. They are now begging the Government for £60m a year! Why should we give that money as they chose to leave and chose to make it harder for this nation to keep going. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-36616955

Also it is the old who shafted the young on this vote, so if anyone must bear the pain it needs to be our biggest cost of the benefits system - the overly protected state pension.

ManonLescaut · 25/06/2016 19:09

Wales as well.

Boris wrote them a letter promising them the same amount from the British government as they were receiving in aid from the EU.

Apparently they believed him.

They failed to consider that a) it may not be true and b) he may not be in a position to honour the promise. The Tories have certainly been much concerned with Wales in the past.

Mistigri · 25/06/2016 19:12

I'm surprised people are surprised at a recruitment freeze and it does suggest that some commentators lack big company business experience. It's the first thing companies do in times of uncertainty. I'm thanking my lucky stars we just filled a role in my department because right now, we would not be making a job offer. Too many unknowns.

I have 100s of acquaintances working in countries where they don't speak the language. Of course many learn for their own social interaction, but it is not a condition of employment and they work through English.

This may be true of people on expat contracts in Asia and the Middle East, but it's much less true in Europe. It is easy to recruit highly qualified bilingual people in France and Germany. Almost all educated people continue to learn English in higher education (it is often compulsory) and many speak almost native standard English as well as their own languages. I work with many educated bilingual Europeans, and you won't get onto my employer's graduate programme without two languages.

prettybird · 25/06/2016 19:12

I'm amazed at the way people are trying to deny the impact.

I actually read out my post to dh before I posted. He agreed it was factual. This is the reality of his role.

But you're right. It's not two years of turmoil. It's more. All the more reason for an Inward Investor looking to establish or grow an operation in the EU not to choose the UK.

You may choose to stick your head in the sand but dh is already having to deal with the consequences in his role.

It was a major topic in MIPIM - the major property market exhibition - and acknowledged as creating major opportunities for other locations such as Ireland.

The effect is real. It has already put off some investors and at best delayed others.

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 19:13

Manon source for that please? How can he have promised any such thing? He's not in a position to. Confused

Mistigri · 25/06/2016 19:18

Weekend the letter is here. It was addressed to all the regions currently receiving EU funds and was signed by Boris and others. (It took me 10 seconds on Google to find this, by the way. It was the first result.)

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/leave_ministers_commit_to_maintain_eu_funding

ManonLescaut · 25/06/2016 19:20

Source:

voteleavetakecontrol.org

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/06/2016 19:21

"Campaigners for a Leave vote have said money Wales gets from Brussels would be maintained by the UK government in the event of Brexit.
In a letter, several Tory government ministers, including Michael Gove and Chris Grayling, said there was "more than enough money" to make the promise."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36523232

ManonLescaut · 25/06/2016 19:21

Oh thanks Mistigri.

PattyPenguin · 25/06/2016 19:22

WeekendAway click on this link www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/leave_ministers_commit_to_maintain_eu_funding

It's on the official Vote Leave website.

In case you don't want to risk the link, I will paste the entire text of the letter and the list of signatories:

"It is important that people and organisations now receiving funding from the European Union know that their funding is safe if we Vote Leave on 23 June.

According to the Office for National Statistics, the official bill for our EU membership in the last year for which we have figures was £19.1 billion - that amounts to over £350 million each week.

We get some of this money back, partly through a negotiated rebate and partly through payments to farmers, universities, regional funds, cultural organisations, and others. Our net contribution to the EU budget is £10.6 billion. We have no control over much of the money spent by the EU in Britain.

Further, we cannot count on the rebate. It is negotiated with the other member states. Its importance is diminishing. The EU budget and our contributions to it are forecast to increase over the next decade as they have continually since we joined the Common Market in 1972.

There are of course some benefits from the EU. There are also many other costs, direct and indirect, of EU membership on top of our official contributions to the EU’s budget.

For example, the UK is set to pay out between £7 billion and £43 billion by 2021 in tax refunds to big businesses which have successfully used the European Court and EU law to escape taxes lawfully imposed on them in Britain. If we stay, these bills will be paid for by British taxpayers on P.A.Y.E. instead of that money going to public services. If we Vote Leave, the Government will pass legislation to prevent these payments being made so that taxpayers are not given these huge bills.

We can also restore our taxation of offshore companies set aside by the European Court, a decision which costs British taxpayers over £800 million each year. There will be many other savings, including from reforming EU procurement rules that add costs and delays to building schools and hospitals.

It is therefore clear that there is more than enough money to ensure that those who now get funding from the EU - including universities, scientists, family farmers, regional funds, cultural organisations and others - will continue to do so while also ensuring that we save money that can be spent on our priorities.

If the public votes to leave on 23 June, we will continue to fund EU programmes in the UK until 2020, or up to the date when the EU is due to conclude individual programmes if that is earlier than 2020.

We will also be able to spend the money much more effectively. For example, some of the bureaucracy around payments to farmers is very damaging and can be scrapped once we take back control.

The funding system for scientists is also unnecessarily bureaucratic. As the Nobel Prize winner Andre Geim said: ‘I can offer no nice words for the EU framework programmes which ... can be praised only by Europhobes for discrediting the whole idea of an effectively working Europe.’ After we vote leave, it should be a priority to increase funding for science and fix problems with the funding system, not all of which are the fault of the EU.

Many have claimed that there would be an immediate blow to the British economy if we take back control. But the Chairman of the IN campaign itself, Lord Rose, admitted:

‘Nothing is going to happen if we come out of Europe in the first five years… . There will be absolutely no change… It’s not going to be a step change or somebody’s going to turn the lights out and we’re all suddenly going to find that we can’t go to France, it’s going to be a gentle process.’

Many areas have seen recent falls in EU funding. The value of agricultural support is in decline and EU structural funds have been cut back significantly. The real danger to current recipients of funding from the EU institutions is that if we vote to remain the EU will further reduce their funding.

After protecting those now in receipt of EU funding, we will still have billions more to spend on our priorities. We propose that at least £5.5 billion of that be spent on the NHS by 2020, giving it a much-needed £100 million per week cash transfusion, and to use £1.7 billion to abolish VAT on household energy bills.

Overall, it is clear that if we Vote Leave we can take back control of British taxpayers’ money, protect funding for those who now get it from the EU, and improve the funding mechanisms so that money saved gets to the frontline. In particular it is clear that scientists and universities should expect that funding will be much more generous after we take back control and give them the priority they deserve, and which is so important for learning and scholarship as well as our future prosperity and security.

Yours sincerely

Julian Brazier

James Duddridge

George Eustice

Michael Gove

Chris Grayling

Boris Johnson

Penny Mordaunt

Priti Patel

Dominic Raab

Iain Duncan Smith

Desmond Swayne

Theresa Villiers

John Whittingdale"

Mistigri · 25/06/2016 19:22

manon in the interests of constructive debate I resisted the temptation to link via LMGTFY ;)

buckingfrolicks · 25/06/2016 19:25

Weekendaway - and Your response now you've seen the source, is what exactly?

LittleBearPad · 25/06/2016 19:29

The naïveté on this thread is astounding. You don't need a meeting on Monday morning to scrap new grad hires. You simply have an instruction in your HR department, if It's vote to leave then do X, Y and Z.

Cornwall in particular seems to be waking up to a few home truths today.

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 19:29

ok thanks for the links

OllyBJolly · 25/06/2016 19:30

One of my clients is a bio science co. Very specialist. Recruit 2 - 4 local graduates every year and attract a huge number of applications. They had a Brexit plan in place but just last week were joking it would never be used because the vote would be for remain

The plan is to relocate to Italy. The company needs to attract and keep the best people in the field and needed the free movement that the Eurozone gives to be able to do that.

I think I'll hear next week that they won't be re-signing the lease on their offices and will be planning a move.

Viviene · 25/06/2016 19:35

Laughable.

You have to be able to speak French or German to work in Paris or Frankfurt, even if you work for a British or American company. They may speak some English too, but the primary language will the country's language.

  • this is not true. I work for an international company in a country where I don't speak the local language. As long as English is the company language you're fine - what else do you need?
I know lots of people who don't speak French and work in Paris (they work in English). I know French people who work in Paris and speak English as that's the company's official language. Lots of people work in Munich and don't speak German. Again, th company language is English. I can't see how Frankfurt would be different?
Mistigri · 25/06/2016 19:35

The naïveté on this thread is astounding. You don't need a meeting on Monday morning to scrap new grad hires. You simply have an instruction in your HR department, if It's vote to leave then do X, Y and Z.

I'm actually astounded at the evident lack of real world business experience on display.

We had a recruitment freeze imposed last year because of uncertainties in our division's key markets. It was imposed from above with no notice. Didn't matter that our business unit was doing ok, either ... We all had to suck it up and do the extra work between us.

mathanxiety · 25/06/2016 19:40

Limer Sat 25-Jun-16 16:33:17
Any company, big or small, will be biding its time to see what the eventual fall-out of this is. They will not be "pushing the Go button". They will be waiting to find out when will the UK actually leave? What will the effect on the rest of the EU be - how bad? What about the relative strengths of the pound/euro/other world currencies? Changes to employment/business legislation they need to consider? Etc, etc.

Baloney.
All of that can be modelled, predicted, anticipated far in advance.
There are many companies that do a lot of business with EU countries, and they will have predicted the hit to their business well in advance and put plans in place.