If you're Welsh and voted Leave, Why?

[Cjamm]

I was really surprised by the Welsh vote, Wales has really benefited from being in the European Union e.g

Swansea University's new Bay Campus was only possible because of the £40 Million from the European Structural Funds which came from a finance package of £60 million from the European Investment Bank.

The National Waterfront Museum, which includes a gallery, exhibition and library, benefited from £3.7m of EU funds when it was constructed.

5.8m of EU funds was made available for Quadrant Intermodal Transport Centre, led by the City & County of Swansea, which replaced the outdated and rundown bus station.

£9.6m EU funds were invested as part of Neath Port Talbot Regeneration project which included schemes to help make improvements in and around the town centres as well as a purpose built Community Enterprise Centre.

1. When you voted did you not care/consider about the financial benefits Wales receives from the EU?
   

1. Do you think Westminister (that only cares about London/SE) will honestly make up the funds instead?
   

1. Was it really immigration and if so why? Was it fear of job loss/overcrowding or was it the refugee issue on the mainland. Do you really believe immigration can be capped/slowed down just because we're leaving the EU?
   

1. The EU army is not a legitimate answer, it doesn't exist & it never will!
   

1. Are you worried at all? This doesn't mean you regret your choice but are you worried about the economy or the possible breakup of Great Britian? Did you expect that Scotland/N.Ireland might leave because of the vote?

[Ineedmorelemonpledge]

Come on Lolli if you look closely you'll see they have yellow round heads and cup holder hands.

Pay attention to the road though, because it'll end abruptly....

[pickledpears]

Just using communities first alongside current jobcentre plus support workers that were in place anyway to provide job clubs, cv writing and basic skills...all things that were in place anyway.

AJAX has been the biggest boost to manafacturing for Merthyr and has no EU funding.

We need more manafacturing not 0 hour or temporary contracts.

[Lolimax]

Pickled we aren't going to agree on this one. But Wales got more from EU than we paid in with the best will in the world I think we are going to be in a void in the political Westminster future. I've heard on the grapevine that the referendum result has put the investment in TATA at risk (highly paid manufacturing jobs, the ones we need) and that's more bad news for the Valleys. I very much doubt now that the Racetrack will go to Blaenau Gwent.
Yes we need well paid long term jobs. Who on earth will argue against that? We also need a workforce who is competitive, qualified and in a position to apply and get those jobs. Quite a tall order.
But we've survived how many recessions and hopefully we'll build upon our strengths, work together (not apart) and create a Wales for our children's future. Lord I sound like a politician. I'm not btw.

[pickledpears]

I'm not arguing the fact Wales have had more out of the EU than they have paid in, I just feel personally that's not enough of a reason to stay and obviously most of Wales agreed with me.

TATA has been on a knife edge for a long time, it's a real shame that the buyers look to be withdrawing. On the other hand if it wasn't for the EU, parliament would have been in a position to support a deal for them.

We all have our views on it but none of us know which way this is going to go, it's a step into the unknown which is daunting no matter which way you voted. Also our government seems to have disappeared.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

OP you are getting your answers now I think. It is quite sad, really.

[Cjamm]

Pickled, I actually don't think that you're a racist immigrant hating thicko, as I thought when you first started posting, sorry about that.

You've actually made me manage to understand that in the Valleys, they've pretty much got nothing, no hope, no prospects, no future , so why keep the status quo? Surely it couldn't possibly get worse or even if it does, it won't change the lives of many as they have no jobs to lose, no homes to worry over, the only way they saw that things could possibly change was to vote Leave.

That I can understand, but I don't necessarily agree as the EU funds things like Social Housing/Education, so their lives & their children's future will certainly be impacted.

I think why I failed to see why so many in Wales Voted Leave is because our positions are very different, the EU has been very good to me, it's given me my career, it's enriched my life, it's allowed me to move up a social class, so Leaving a Union that has done so much for me & what I believe to be so much for the UK seems crazy, but for those in the Valleys, the ones with essentially no future, believe that the EU's impacts on their lives hasn't been as meaningful, they needed change, any change really & this was their only option.

[LouisCK]

I voted leave because things can't get worse for Merthyr than they already are

Watch and learn, bach. Watch and learn.

[pickledpears]

Thank you cjamm. I should say that I was undecided up until recently on how I would vote so I do understand remainers thinking it's crazy to vote leave. This vote, for Wales has been about more than the EU I think, now we just have to wait and see.

Thanks for your dazzling debate Louis.

[LouisCK]

What debate? You think it can't get any worse; I'm telling you that having less money poured into the Welsh economy certainly will make it worse. It's not rocket science - Hell, it's not even Reception year science.

Once the immigrants are gone (that won't be happening either) then the huge proportion of people on benefits in the S Wales will, I'm sure, be delighted to pick up those lowly jobs.

I'm deeply ashamed of my Country and sad to have to sit back and watch it burn.

[pickledpears]

Watch and learn, bach. Watch and learn. this.

Like I said none of us know what's going to happen. I don't see how things can get worse for Merthyr and the valleys as I've stated, it's your right to disagree with that but please don't patronise me by telling me to watch and learn.

Also I haven't stated that the "immigrants will be gone" that's not why I voted leave so if you're looking for a Welsh poster to call racist then choose somebody else.

[UnGoogleable]

Interesting thread. I too was baffled by Wales' choice. But now I can start to understand some of the arguments, as summarised in OPs latest post.

It comes from despair and lack of hope. The EU investment that people have seen hasn't really meant anything to them and their lives. I get that - there's a massively expensive white elephant of a development in a town near me that was paid for with EU funding. The council developed it because the funding was available, without any real plan on what to do with it. I think that has happened a lot.

[LouisCK]

Well, you will be watching and learning won't you? We all will, thanks to the myopic, cross-fingers-and-hope-for-the-best Brexitters.

And I'm from Rhondda as well, BTW, so that last paragraph about me looking for a Welsh poster to call racist is plain daft. I don't have to look very far to find racists thanks very much.

[pickledpears]

Well you went from referring to me to mentioning getting the immigrants out so I don't think it was much of a leap to think you were implying I was racist.

For myself and other leave voters the unknown was the better option than the current reality. You can tell me I'm wrong as much as you like but that doesn't change the fact that it's how I and others feel.

[LouisCK]

You said 'I'm Welsh and neither racist not stupid. I voted leave because Merthyr has the highest levels of immigration in Wales and second highest in the uk. The town was shit to start with, now with all the extra people and no extra services it's even worse.'

What exactly did you mean by that then?

[Lolimax]

If the British economy struggles (and at this point we don't actually know that will happen) then it surely stands to reason that inward investment into the Valleys (either from private or public money) will decline.
That coupled with the Welfare Reform changes I think things could get worse, I'm sorry. I really, really want to be wrong. And I promise that in 5 years time if the Welsh Index of Multiple Deprivation has shown major upward changes I will come on here and apologise.

[pickledpears]

I think it's clear what I meant by that. A town that has record levels of immigration and no additional funding for education, NHS, employment and housing is unsustainable. Now show me where I said we should totally stop immigration or round up the immigrants and send them home. So what are you implying?

[LouisCK]

So you vote for less funding? Perfect.

I'm not implying anything. You said you voted leave because of high immigration in Merthyr. I was pointing out that this vote to leave will have little to no impact on immigration rates.

[pickledpears]

Oh thanks for pointing that out I had no idea. If you read back you'll see we have already discussed the structural funding from the EU.

[Ineedmorelemonpledge]

Zero hour contracts did NOT come from the EU!!!!!!!

www.euractiv.com/section/social-europe-jobs/news/uk-reprimanded-over-zero-hour-contracts/

God I could weep, really I could.

[pickledpears]

Bbc now reporting that Liberty is going ahead with the TATA bid.

Nobody said the EU brought in 0 hour contracts did they? It's a fact that when you have a large workforce willing to work under poor conditions (including 0 hour contracts) then it's very hard to fight for improvements.

And before anyone states the obvious again, of course it should be the employers who are penalised for poor working conditions and the government should have stepped in a long time ago.

[GertrudeSmellsDivine]

I really hope that's right about the Tata bid.

[pickledpears]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-36632815

[JemimaMuddledUp]

I am Welsh. I live in rural Wales and work on an EU funded project (part of the RDP). I am totally baffled as to why anyone here would vote Leave, but clearly they did. I can only presume that they don't understand where the money for all the improvements came from. We certainly don't have large numbers of immigrants here, unless you count holiday home owners from the West Midlands!

[Ineedmorelemonpledge]

Ok, as I posted the EU in the link, not only didn't agree to zero hour contracts, they were not happy with the zero hour contract idea and warned on this, wanting to create support for those people who had to sign up to them.

Labour laws and equality were one of the strengths of the EU. And if anything came good from the influence of Germany in the EU it's their stance on work time regulations and the necessity for such institutions as the German Works council.

I was part of the works council for my last company and I can tell you, they had a lot of influence.

So who will stand up to support UK workers on these contracts now? Tony Blair promised to end them over 20 years ago - how did he do?

It's such a total casserole of mess - people are confusing the EU directives with the UK's recent political cock ups. And to grab this opportunity for gain Boris and Nige grabbed the shit stick of fear and started stirring.

What else is the EU to blame for in Wales? The weather?

I think I'm understanding the true meaning of Hiraeth this week. But my longing is for a Wales I fear never existed. At the moment I don't even want to bring DS over for the summer I feel so despondent.

[pickledpears]

Ineedmore I'm well aware that it's a government issue, I'm not arguing otherwise. All I'm saying is that uncapped immigration has contributed to a problem that was caused by the uk government. I can't really make my point any clearer than that.

I think the whole of the country is feeling despondent regardless of how they voted.