Article 50 will never be invoked now, will it?

[neverknowinglywrong]

Talk about a poisoned chalice for the new leader.

I voted leave. I am very annoyed Cameron reneged on his promise to invoke it ASAP.

It's not going to happen.

"it has been won with lies!" Doesn't exactly wash with a non-racist electorate being told, they're racist.

I await the remains predicted apocalypse with curious interest........were unpicking the Lisbon treaty, not putting the iron curtain back up!

Back on thread, it may pay to take advantage of Junkers ire. IMO the EU are going to have far bigger problems than Brexit far sooner than they anticipated. But Yes it is for us to invoke Article 50.

Talk about a poisoned chalice for the new leader.

Why do you think it's a poisoned chalice if you voted for it?

Given the result DC had to go and it makes sense for the new leader (presumably Boris) to sort it all out. Article 50'will have to be invoked despite Boris and his cosy words about Europe today. The EU more or less responded to that with "pack your coat and fuck off."

It will happen within the next five months.

I voted Remain but even I can see we have now burnt all bridges. It's just a matter of time until it is invoked.

Hi, TooMuchMNTime

We done it against all the odds

Claig, yes but the vitriol and labelling voters as thick etc...will politicians learn nothing?

'will politicians learn nothing?'

No. They hope that by labelling us as thick, they will get other voters not to join us and they hope that they will shame some of us to vote for them. It is just bullying like Project Fear or Project Smear. That is all they have got because they have nothing positive to say. The problem for them is that the people have got wise to it and the bullying and scaremongering no longer work for them because the people are no longer listening to them which is why the British people caused the biggest political upset and revolution the world has seen for years and years.

Claig, did you see Chuka Umuna on BBC at 5am ish? He made some excellent points, I was really hoping others woukd pick them up. Perhaps we will see him this weekend after he's had some sleep!

I'm assuming it'll happen ASAP. They are all meeting next week right?

I don't think the EU wants to hang around and wait, and I know from reading online that many Leavers are very displeased that we didn't leave the EU this morning...

I rewoke at 4.50 am after having nodded off earlier so I didn't catch everything he said. I am not keen on Chuka because to me he is just another spinner, another Blair, all words and spin, but nothing real. I think he is the type of Labour politician that the North of England Labour heartland traditional voters deserted as they voted Brexit against the advice of the Labour spinners.

I like Steve Hilton who was on with Chuka, because I think Steve has changed since his early Cameron days and now gets it and understands what is happening and how the people want real change from the lies and spin.

I like Kate Hoey and John Mann. One of those should be Labour leader, but they will never be allowed to by the Establishment who prefer a Chuka, a Blair, a Cooper, a Tristram instead. That is why Labour will continue to lose as they lose their traditional working class vote.

The obvious thing would be to appoint a cross party cross view team to negotiate and invoke the A50 to let them get on with it.
Conservative leader should be a sideshow.
They won an election because they promised a referendum
They had the referendum
They bungled it.
They need to buckle up and deal with it.

claig how are you feeling? This is your first 'call it'!

'I don't think the EU wants to hang around and wait, and I know from reading online that many Leavers are very displeased that we didn't leave the EU this morning...'

I think you are right. The EU are angry and the Tories want to string it out. Farage wants it done uickly and Corbyn also said it should be done quickly. We had Tony Blair's former Chief of Staff, Powell, on Newsnight telling us that Cameron and Boris are right to take their time, as Dan Hannan also says, and that we need a general election and a mandate and then possibly another referendum on a new relationship.

Some leavers are worried that the Tories may try to do some deal that keeps us part-way in.

'claig how are you feeling? This is your first 'call it'!'

Not strictly true, Giddy.

I called the UKIP win in the Euro elections, I called a landslide for UKIP in Clacton when everyone said it was impossible, I called the UKIP win in Rochester when Cameron "threw the kitchen sink" at it, and I called Trump to be Republican nominee and I call him to be President.

As Trump always says "people will soon start saying, Mr Trump, please can we stop winning, we are sick of winning, we are always winning" and Trump says "no, we're going to keep winning" and I'm just gonna keep "calling it", I can't help it

'The obvious thing would be to appoint a cross party cross view team to negotiate and invoke the A50 to let them get on with it.
Conservative leader should be a sideshow.'

Absolutely. They want to keep the sideshow distraction going for as long as possible in order to maybe not follow fully through.

Claig they need to bottle your resilience :)
Those were teeny tiny. This one was seismic.

I also called a Corbyn victory against the Oxbridge teams

'This one was seismic.'

Yes this was an earthquake and Trump is coming next. The whole world is going to change fundamentally. Globalism is on the way out, the elites are losing everywhere. Brexit is part of that, the bankers are howling, their political class are stunned, the people are voting them out.

I do love the fact that you and I are at such different ends of the political spectrum but every now and then we find ourselves nodding heads. It's a testament to democracy :)
But I do hope you're back to your Kipper 12% for Trump!
And I despair of the PLP with their 'message'

Yep Corbyn was my "Weird, me and claig agree' moment

If you had read Vote leave's own web pages you would see that there was never a plan to invoke Article 50 immediately. They also claim it may not be necessary to do so.

I have always found that very concerning as it seemed it always left scope for a second referendum - which would be an abuse of the democratic mandate we the people have just handed the Government.

We could just real the Communities act and leave without going down the Article 50 route.

We have to invoke Article 50 - the EU cannot do this. I understood the plan was to have pre-invocation talks and also start negotiations with non-EU countries before actually invoking A50

'I do love the fact that you and I are at such different ends of the political spectrum but every now and then we find ourselves nodding heads.'

We can both read the tea leaves.

Trump will win.

Trump, Brexit, the end of the EU, the people's revolt against the elites, the end of political correctness, the rise of populism, the end of spin and the end of free trade deals and globalism is all part of the same phenomenon, the people's distrust of the elites.

'And I despair of the PLP with their 'message'

It is very sad. The world has changed, the people have changed, they delivered Brexit against the Project Fear the Establishment thought would do what it did in the Scottish Indyref. But they didn't scare the working class in the North of England and all over England and Wales outside of London because many of them have little left to lose. They didn'rt care what Umunna and Cameron said, they gave up listening long ago.

And Labour are in a timewarp. They have spent their lives saying the same thing and now they can't do a u-turn which is why they are heading for a cul-de-sac.

Only Kate Hoey, John Mann or the excellent Dreda Say Mitchell can save them, but the Estalishment control Labour and they don't want them.

Here is Dreda talking common sense against the type of cant that Labour usually serves up.

They won't listen to Dreda because she talks common sense and the Establishment cares more about business, markets, EU trade and globalisation than people's lives.

I spoke to a lot of Labour voters during this campaign, from the traditional Old Labour pin-a-red-rosette-on-a-donkey type, to social justice warriors to Corbynista and Blairites.

Those groups are so diverse that they cannot live together in one party.

The Old Labour traditionalists voted overwhelmingly for Leave and refused to be forced into recognising the false vision for the UK and the EU that the Labour party was pumping out at them. They may be lost to UKIP very soon if Labour continues down this ridiculous path of failing to recognise that these communities are under huge pressures and have very little hope for improvement in their lives.

The Blairites probably have more in common with Cameron than with Corbyn. A more One Nation traditional Tory leader could force them back to Labour - but not under Corbyn.

The Corbynistas lack the political vision to understand that Corbyn is utterly electable. Corbynistas are a cult worshipping at the shrine of St Jeremy of Corbyn

Claig, I think exactly the same about Chuka, hence my surprise st him talking sense!

The thought of Trump horrifies me. The end of globalism is attractive. but I don't think the elites will allow it.

The EU can kick us out! But it's complicated. As is everything!

I've not seen Osborne in all of this. I suspect he's extremely busy trying to buffer the almighty financial mess we face ( yet again).

Of course they will invoke it. They can't go back on it and the EU won't let us know.
The Tory boys took a gamble, they've lost and now they have to follow it through.