Is anyone else getting quite tired of being called a racist?

[Peppatina]

I know it can't just be me.

It doesn't matter what carefully thought out reasons a brexiter has for wanting to leave (I've seen some very articulate and reasoned ones on mn itself) we are still all getting lumped into a stereotypical group of closet racist idiots.

And Lord forbid any of those reasons might just involve any concern over levels of eu migration!

I've been told that I'm essentially imagining the three week waiting list for my GP or that this is nothing to do with eu migration. If I say I know it is because of the names being called out I become the equivalent of Enoch Powell.

The same goes for a certain local estate very much being a no go area, especially for young girls. After braving this street once with my children and being spat on and shouted at by a group of very hostile Romanian men/boys I've been told I imagined it.

When I had my son a few week ago my I was the only English speaking person in my ward. A polish man was shouting and being very aggressive to staff as they were struggling to find an interpreter.

I absolutely know that not every migrant is aggressive and that they should build more schools and go surgeries but I believe I'm right to be concerned about a high number of migrants who are not intergrating with their local community and the unsustainable strain on services.

I'm sick of being told that my experiences don't matter. That to even mention that this is what life is like in our town means I am a racist or little englander.

Rebelrose what do think I think racism means?

My partner was born here. His family came to this country in the late 50's or early 60's. My partner was born in 1963 he told me a lot about the 70's and how he was treated.

Lets not forget what happened to the Guilford 4 they were coerced into giving false confessions. This country has a lot of history if we leave what rights would we be giving up for everyone living in this country.

Also my family has some fishing ties on the coast and they feel very strongly that leaving is in their best interests.

Sadly it's not in the fish's best interest or sustainability of the fishery/ecosystem as a whole. What they want is to take exactly the amount of fish they want with no thought for tomorrow. British fisheries are not in a state because of the EU. They're in a state because of 1000 years of unregulated plunder.

Sunshine you are subverting the argument now.

In any country if the people born there believed people from other countries were affecting their birth right public services negatively then they might get peed off. Quite rightly. Quite righty not at those people but at the establishment that is creating the farce.

Tighten controls, do something, anything just to show that you are listening to the people. If you don't then you are going to create divisiveness and resentment and it's all well and good people throwing the racist card around but that isn't the really the issue here.

To the poster who said the govt can only cope by increasing taxes etc no....he can cope by preventing the problem arising in the first place. Having procedures in place, constraints.......it's not about creed or colour it's about what is best for the nation that you were voted in to look out for

'Also my family has some fishing ties on the coast and they feel very strongly that leaving is in their best interests.

Sadly it's not in the fish's best interest or sustainability of the fishery/ecosystem as a whole. What they want is to take exactly the amount of fish they want with no thought for tomorrow. British fisheries are not in a state because of the EU. They're in a state because of 1000 years of unregulated plunder.'

No, because they are British waters and should be exclusively fished by British fishermen as they were before we joined the EU. Now the problem is that the aters are shared with foreign fleets which means that there are not enough fish allocated to the British fishermen which is why their inustry has declined.

Yes Claig that's pretty much what they said.

If someone was born here, and she or he grows up and raises a family here then that is taken into account by local councils when analysing there local population and services are adjusted accordingly, albeit slowly - overtime but we have not (it seems) got the capacity or financial resources to just cope with new numbers of people turning up each and every day .......and why would we? Who could plan for that?

'To the poster who said the govt can only cope by increasing taxes etc no....he can cope by preventing the problem arising in the first place. Having procedures in place, constraints.......it's not about creed or colour it's about what is best for the nation that you were voted in to look out for'

Absolutely, and this is what this Referendum is all about. The phonies who run our government, the dog whistle politics hypocrites who campaigned so nastily against Sadiq Khan because of his religion, care more about their business and Goldman Sachs mates than they do about the ordinary people of the country and their living standarsd and hospitals and nurses and doctors pay. They want to do what their EU elite mates, Goldman Sachs, the IMF, JP Morgan and all the rest of the bigwigs want for their own benefit, rather than what is best for the people.

Racist to me means a prejudice or feeling of superiority against someone of a different race or nationality and/or an expectation or stereotyping of that race or nationality.

Tbh I have seen a fair bit of that from people who want to vote leave. Comments about no go areas with immigrants in, an expectation that they're all coming here to claim child benefit (all 0.3% of them), taking jobs, GP appointments and school places from UK citizens and wanting to close the borders.

it's all in context and selective information, isn't it?

if you see an Irish man yelling in the hospital - do you think that the fact he's Irish is at all relevant to the story you're telling?

if a Polish woman helps you carry your groceries, do you think the fact that she's Polish is at all relevant? or do you only include the nationality information when it's a negative story?

Or, to give a different perspective on the question you're asking:

If you met an American person and they kept telling you negative story after negative story about their experiences with black people, to then conclude, "but I'm just stating facts here, of course I'm not racist": would you just take them at their word?

OP - I think the problem is this;

The examples you and others give have little to do with immigration in some areas and nothing to do with immigration in others.

In the UK there will be hundreds of GP surgeries where wait times are much longer than usual, but in a lot of those cases there will be no immigrants at all, it is simply because there are more people with a greater range of health problems and not enough GPs to cope with the amount of appointments needed.

There are many rough estates in the UK that a lot of people would class as a 'no go' area. Drugs, muggings, rapes etc, yet in some of these 'no go' estates the people causing the trouble will all be young British males (white, black, asian).

There will be wards in the UK which will have all British patients in them, in these wards there will always be 1 or 2 angry/difficult patients who take up more of the nurses time and who may even be nasty towrds other fellow patients. That's humans for you, nothing to do with their nationality.

So what I'm trying to say is all the examples you have given could have been given by a lot of people in the UK, but the people they mention in the examples would be British.

You can't use problems that all members of the UK are contributing to as a reason to say there is too much immigration.

I have plenty of positive stories, my poker buddies are mainly polish 😄

However I was using these anecdotes to describe why I personally felt high immigration levels were affecting me and my community negatively.

And to be honest it would have felt a bit like I was saying 'I can't be racist because my best friend is black' sort of thing.

I wanted my anecdotes to stand for themselves as I don't believe having these concerns deserves to be labelled as racist or small minded.

I literally cannot wait for this referendum to be over. All I hear is bla-bla immigration bla-bla.

I do not live in "leafy Islington". I grew up in a very rough part of East London and now live in another (equally rough) part of London. There have always been long GP waiting lists and lack of school places here. Always.

At the school I went to I was one of only about twenty white British pupils in my year. I have friends from so many different walks of life and cultures. I feel lucky. Not put out because it takes me a bit longer to see a GP.

I don't deny there are some problems within various cultures wrt, for instance, treatment of women. But these problems exist within "British" culture too. Honestly, if your main reason for wanting to leave the EU is to improve life for women I think you are probably looking at it from an extremely simplistic angle.

Anyway. That's my two cents. That's my experience. Others will be different.

I can totally respect that someone's experiences could differ vastly to mine, I just wanted the same courtesy back.

Thank you Maybebaby. Very well said.

Peppatina as you seriously seem to want your "concerns" to be discussed. So. Can I ask:

What exactly what the problem about being the only woman spelling English in that moment in your labour ward?
What was the issue with the man shouting, why did that affect you?
Why was his nationality relevant?
Why was the nationality of the young people at the council estate relevant?
How is all this related to the referendum?

(Obv only woman speaking English not spelling!)

I think the op's posts highlights that in some areas immigration is much higher than in other parts and intergration has not always been as good as it could be

We have also witnessed this with some Pakistani and Somali communities (and lead to a number of issues but it's not an EU issue)

I blame government more than anyone for ignoring this it tends to happen in poorer areas of the UK, wanting to appear accepting and really is it that important as they are not the people influencing politics - well that's changed

Integration doesn't happen overnight enthusiasm. Takes time and effort and good will on both sides. Is not easy. You wouldn't fine it easy either integrating in a culture different to yours. Racism doesn't help it happen, quite the opposite.

Tbh my experience of the debate so far is that those claiming immigration is out of control seem to be those who hardly meet or know any immigrants.

To add to still questions
Why does it have to do with people been integrated in the society? Are you saying that if these people were speaking English as well you (and me) then there would be no issue?
Or would you use their accent to still identify 'where' they are coming rom?

'Tbh my experience of the debate so far is that those claiming immigration is out of control seem to be those who hardly meet or know any immigrants.'

What about the OP?

claig you and I have talked about overfishing before, though I had a different username then. I know a lot about the marine environment and fisheries because of my current job. I asked you in the past what your expertise was; you didn't answer, and denied overfishing was a problem. Sadly pretty much every fisheries scientist in the world disagrees with you.

Many British fishermen sold their quotas. Voluntarily for short term gain. And now they moan and moan and moan because they can't catch and sell as much as they want, regardless of the sustainability of the fishery and the methods it employs

I'm not stupid enough to say that the CFP is perfect. However if we leave the EU, I'm certain our marine environment will go down the plughole. Fishermen want to exploit it, and governments want their votes.

'Or would you use their accent to still identify 'where' they are coming rom?'

I hardly think so, the country is full of accents, from Birmingham, to Scotland, to Liverpool, to Wales and London