Is anyone else getting quite tired of being called a racist?

[Peppatina]

I know it can't just be me.

It doesn't matter what carefully thought out reasons a brexiter has for wanting to leave (I've seen some very articulate and reasoned ones on mn itself) we are still all getting lumped into a stereotypical group of closet racist idiots.

And Lord forbid any of those reasons might just involve any concern over levels of eu migration!

I've been told that I'm essentially imagining the three week waiting list for my GP or that this is nothing to do with eu migration. If I say I know it is because of the names being called out I become the equivalent of Enoch Powell.

The same goes for a certain local estate very much being a no go area, especially for young girls. After braving this street once with my children and being spat on and shouted at by a group of very hostile Romanian men/boys I've been told I imagined it.

When I had my son a few week ago my I was the only English speaking person in my ward. A polish man was shouting and being very aggressive to staff as they were struggling to find an interpreter.

I absolutely know that not every migrant is aggressive and that they should build more schools and go surgeries but I believe I'm right to be concerned about a high number of migrants who are not intergrating with their local community and the unsustainable strain on services.

I'm sick of being told that my experiences don't matter. That to even mention that this is what life is like in our town means I am a racist or little englander.

Cos we are thick and racist, Ouriana....

Do you tend to look at the broader picture and the long term in decision making? All the thoughtful Leave voters I know do exactly that.

So to us, these are real fears whereas to many Remainers, it's all about short term effects on the economy.

I cannot see how the NHS or, for that matter, the education system will possibly cope with migration, at current levels of 3 million in a decade. Add to that any of Greece or Spain economy collapse, more countries joining a Eurozone designed only for Germany and you have real hot water.

The UK will decline sadly and I forsee real civil unrest throughout Europe. I guess st that point the EU will collapse but about three decades too late!

Remainers will think this is horseshit but it is a real possibility. And their denial of Turkey joining is laughable. Of course they will. Just not in the next 5 years.

Roonerspism and Ourianna - you have both made some incorrect assumptions.

I think the leave camp are going to win by a narrow margin. I think many people will realise that leaving did nothing to halt immigration, in fact it actually increased migration as many hurry to get here before we leave Europe. After that, migrants will continue to come here, because there is nothing stopping them.

Everyone will then start to see their rights disappearing at an alarming rate. More and more people will loose their jobs. The price of everything will skyrocket and there will be civil unrest. Politicians and the media will continue to blame migrants.

And to top it all off, when we decide that the grass is greener in Europe and want to leave we won't be able to, because we've trapped ourselves in hell. The rest of Europe won't care how we are being treated or that we want to go and live in France or Spain, because we got what we deserved - a taste of our own medicine.

There, you go. A few assumptions from someone who wants to remain. I don't have a crystal ball either, just like you. But I do know that if you act out of kindness things are far more likely to go well.

I worry about civil unrest if we leave. Loss of the NHS if we leave (you really think Boris & Gove are going to save it, they can't wait to sell it off), a move further to the right if we leave (fuelled in part by a deep recession). And if we want to carry on trading freely with the Eurozone we won't be able to limit economic migration - we just won't get to vote on anything either. We're a past power - we have little influence in the world anyway & the influence as so have comes from being matey with the Americans & part of the EU.

We have roughly what is looking like will be close to 50% of the population who will be happy either way.

I'm not sure it matters who wins. They will be blamed for any problems we have for the next X number of years.

I think civil unrest is not beyond the realms of possibility for either result, for that reason.

If it goes 'the wrong way' for any of us, we will need to put that aside and get on with the business of making the most of a 'bad situation' rather than getting into a blame game, as much as, possible.

Its all this them v us stuff which is actually more of a risk than the EU if you ask me.

Ouriana - I don't have all the facts and figures, like I said, the above scenario was my set of assumptions. Funnily enough, the politicians don't have reliable facts and figures either. They're constantly presenting us with imaginary sets of statistics to further their arguments. Nobody knows exactly what will happen.

What I do know is that even Farage said we would all have less money if we left. (I think he meant us poor people). He added, it is better that we have a quality of life. Where does he think quality of life comes from exactly? I don't believe we have a better quality of life by having only white people here.

Good lord - why will "rights" disappear at an alarming rate if we Leave?

The EU doesn't give a fuck about rights. Look at the suicide rate of Greeks and how it's risen in the face of their austerity.

Look at the zero response to the Syrian migrant crisis.

We actually offer increased rights in the UK in the field of, for example, maternity pay.

We can of course seek to control immigration if we leave. But no one is sure to the extent of how much.

But when the Eurozone collapses - as it will - we will be FAR better positioned to cope.

namechanger your post is laughable. EU migrants are all "white".

Implying there is racism here in any form is offensive.

Not one Leave voter I know is worried about immigration per se. But they are extremely worried about uncontrolled immigration, especially in the next two decades.

I stand by my forecast. 70 per cent Remain. Sadly

What did Farage mean by quality of life? He meant we are better without migrants from the darker skinned parts of Europe. Have you not see his racist poster?

Roonerspism - there are lots and lots of racist leavers who are worried about immigration, all immigration. Have you been living in a parallel universe?

Farage is a toss pot. Syrian refugees have nothing to do with EU migrants entering the UK.

It is not racist to be worried about immigration. It is the failure to grasp this basic concept, by successive governments, that has got us to where we are.

Yes, there are racist Leave voters. There will be racist Remain voters. What is your point?

We both agree on one thing, Farage is indeed a huge toss pot.

I've never worried about immigration. Not once. I wonder why I haven't? I live in a city with probably one of the highest numbers of immigrants in the whole of the UK. I've always seen it as a hugely positive thing. It only becomes a negative thing when people are made to believe that it is.

Really encouraged to see lots more remain posters where I live this weekend!

I shall continue reading this in my lunchbreak tomorrow.
OP, yawwwwwwnnnnnnn

name I wasn't worried about it either.

But when it's your area that has services utterly overwhelmed, you start to question. We are now releasing green belt land on which to build housing. People can longer register at a GP. My first baby nearly died due to the fact the local hospital deals with twice as many births as planned. Don't get me started on schools and the class sizes of 40.

There is huge immigration here. The region is collapsing. You can tell me all you like that uncontrolled population growth is a good thing. But it needs resources.

Fine if your area has that. Mine doesn't. And the Leavers are the Labour voters.

I completely agree that public services need a lot of investment (I have a very expensive severely disabled child) - however, imo the recessikn that would follow leave would make more investment in public services very difficult. Especislly with Boris & Gove at the helm selling off everything that is left.

I'm not in an area with that much immigration but our public services are falling apart as well. There was a birth rate increase which means year 3 & down are overflowing, austerity means the council is cutting everything in sight & people with disabilities are losing services.

Locally people are blaming it on immigration which is bonkers - there's hardly any here. They should be blaming the problems on the neoliberal economics of the Tory party & demanding investment in public services not blaming (in this area at least) a non-existent bogeyman.

Yes, I am sick of being called racist, xenophobic, thick, stupid, ignorant, unthinking, uneducated, a UKIP supporter, and all the other things thrown at Leavers on this forum by quite a number of Remainers.

I hope their unwarranted feelings of superiority get stuck in their throats when Leave wins.

Where are these baby booms coming from? The UK birth rate is down - 1.9.

Apple In 2015 one in four births in the UK was to a foreign-born mother.

Limer how many of them also had a british father and were therefore british?

About half of them I think. So one in eight to two foreign-born parents, another one in eight to foreign-born mother and British father. I don't know how many were to foreign-born father and British mother. Certainly a significant minority of UK births though.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2015-08-27

Over a quarter of births (27.0%) in 2014 were to mothers born outside the UK, a slight increase from 2013 (26.5%)

In 2014, there were 175,118 babies born to non-UK born fathers, which represents 26.6% of live births where the fathers’ country of birth was stated. This includes a smaller proportion (19.7%) of babies that had both parents born outside the UK. Information for fathers is not available for births registered solely by the mother (5.4% of all live births in 2014).

It may have been a birth rate drop in 2001/2002 followed by a steady climb to 2008 (just checked out the figures).

I have a 2002 born child & secondary school choices were easy in his year - loads of spare places, no oversubscribed schools (except the grammars). This year (a child born in 2005) it's been noticeably harder & I know the forecasts for the current year 3's is that there's a shortage or spaces.

But anyway the problems with school provision locally have been blamed on birth rate & checking out the figures it may just be that there was a drop making things easy for a few years.