Secret government cables leak in full showing government to give Turkey visa free access to the UK

[BritBrit]

Despite David Cameron & Theresa May denying this only yesterday the cables have now leaked in full showing the UK government is in fact planning to give millions of Turks visa free access to the UK.

What possible reason could David Cameron have to deny it!!

order-order.com/2016/06/12/read-turkey-cables-in-full/

annie then I suggest you get a whole lot more cynical before voting

I suggest you get a whole lot more cynical before voting

And I suggest you get a whole lot more informed.

misti care to offer me any comfort that these additional countries won't join the EU?

That Cyprs won't be forced into not blocking a Turkish movement to join due to an EU bail out, for example?

The only nation who would block Turkey joining is Cyprus & they won't because they are reliant on EU money for the country to function plus to give Turkey visa free access to the EU requires qualified majority voting (55% of the vote)

Turkey is the worlds 18th biggest economy, the EU wants them in. With Turkey in, the EU would be the worlds largest economy (it's lagging just behind the US at the moment).

The government said that Polish (etc) accession would contribute 13000 immigrants per year. That was a lie. Like WMD, the government and civil servants told lies, that they knew to be lies, to fool the people. Which was a pretty bad move, because now if the government tells people the sky is blue they quite sensibly get a second opinion. Unfortunately, they get that second opinion from UKIP and other assorted racists.

Labour rightly say that they made mistakes on immigration and something needs to be done. Sadly, they don't know what to do (and don't care, so long as they can continue to get cheap plumbers in Islington) and the price we all pay is a corrosive distrust of everything that is said about immigration.

When we're all living in the State of England in the United States of Europe we'll probably have more control boundaries - nobody will force us to allow thousands of people to move here when there's no where for them to live!

Roonerspism I already posted this link above, but you could do worse than starting here: blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/turkey-is-not-likely-to-join-the-eu-in-the-next-decade/

Quite apart from the political and economic obstacles to Turkey in particular joining the EU (in 16 years, it has ticked off one out of 33 "chapters"), it's becoming harder for any country to accede. There are now 28 EU members, each of whom has a veto of equal value.

I simply don't believe that misti

I don't believe any of it. Germany wants Turkey to join. The failing southern economies will be forced into it.

I'm concerned about the collapse of the economies of Southern Europe and what this will mean. Greece was let in without meeting all tick boxes.

And even if I'm overly cynical. What if Turkey joins in a decade? For my vote OUT is a long term decision based in the best possible long term prospects for the future generation of children in the UK.

I despise the EU and its monstrous long term aims.

I think people are massively underestimating the Turkish issue in Cyprus.

Any Cypriot government that did not veto Turkey's accession would be resigning itself to long-term political oblivion. Politicians do not tend to do that sort of thing knowingly.

Cyprus will be forced into it by the Monster. Its economy is fucked.

It's ALL about these fucked southern economies

Cyprus will be forced into it by the Monster. Its economy is fucked

I think we will have to agree to disagree, I think you're profoundly misinformed on this point.

Jassy, I actually hope you are right as this one keeps me up at night.

I predict a Remain vote and Turkey joining in about 7 years..... We will be forced into it.

Any Cypriot government that did not veto Turkey's accession would be resigning itself to long-term political oblivion.

In the way that Labour appear to have condemned themselves to long-term political oblivion by opening the borders to the A8 countries? The obvious unpopularity of that didn't stop them, did it?

In the way that Labour appear to have condemned themselves to long-term political oblivion by opening the borders to the A8 countries? The obvious unpopularity of that didn't stop them, did it?

This would only be comparable if Poland had invaded and still occupied Scotland, and we hadn't vetoed them joining the EU.

The claim was that governments and politicians don't do things that condemn them to long-term political oblivion. They clearly do. Lying about WMD. Lying about there only being 13000 immigrants per year. Lying about absolutely not imposing tuition fees, in the case of the Lib Dems. The introduction of the Poll Tax in the case of the Tories. The mere fact that a policy is political suicide likely to end the government careers of everyone involved doesn't appear to act as much of a brake, does it? I'm not sure that the nature of the basis for the objections really matters: relying on politicians making sensible decisions in order to avoid crushing electoral defeats isn't borne out by the facts.

I am ultimately going to vote Remain, but I find the government's inability to clearly state that Turkey will not accede (rather than relying on "not yet" and "Greece and Cypus") extremely worrying.

Britain has a veto of Turkish accession, but no British politician is willing to actually say that we would use it. Instead, we're told to rely on the Cypriot government instead. Why not just say, in terms, that the UK will veto Turkish accession and would hold a referendum if that policy were to change?

Cameron in 2014:

“In terms of Turkish membership of the EU, I very much support that....That’s a longstanding position of British foreign policy which I support. We discussed that again in our talks today”.

Cameron in 2010, to the Turkish parliament:

“I’m here to make the case for Turkey's membership of the EU. And to fight for it.”

It turns out that a lot of people think "I certainly don't want to be a member of an EU which Turkey is a member of, and our government are fighting for that to be the case. Sounds like a reason to leave". Why did Cameron say these things? Was he lying then, or is he lying now? For a lot of people, it appears the answer is "who cares, why take the chance?"

Snowball in hell chance of Turkey in the EU is about right.
It's not just Greece & Cyprus that would be against in the unlikely event that Turkey met the criteria. Poland, Italy, Spain and Portugal would have an issue with a non Christian country joining.
It is just not going to happen.
The politicians are trying to keep Turkey sweet of course, as they provide a convenient buffer between Europe and the unstable areas of the Middle East.

Why should we be reliant on a list of foreign countries to protect our interests? Why can't we ask our own politicians to protect our own interests? Why is Cameron so hot for Turkish accession, even though it's obvious that it's a policy which is politically completely toxic.

I've been on doorsteps campaigning for remain, but I'm giving up: I shall vote Remain, more in sorry than in expectation, but the utter political incompetence of London-based politicians, whose policy is "we want more immigration, anyone who objects is a racist" has lost us the campaign. No positive case, just political suicide.

Why is Cameron so hot for Turkish accession

My understanding is that the official stance of encouraging Turkish accession has been used as a carrot dangled in front of the Turkish government so it would reform the country and improve its human rights record, and most importantly stick by the EU on the geopolitical stage - but with no real intention of ever letting them join. Which is pretty shitty to Turkey.

Another thing is that Britain has traditionally insisted on seeing the EU as a business partnership rather than as a cultural and political project, so from the British perspective including countries that are not culturally European is a way to steer the EU away from deeper political integration.

My understanding is that the official stance of encouraging Turkish accession has been used as a carrot dangled in front of the Turkish ... but with no real intention of ever letting them join

Well, that policy has certainly worked well. How many votes have we in Remain lost to "the government is lying about Turkish accession"? News that it's a different sort of lie isn't exactly campaign gold.

so from the British perspective including countries that are not culturally European is a way to steer the EU away from deeper political integration.

Hey guys! Massive uncontrolled immigration from a country entirely inimical to our values is a great way to make it easier for us to negotiate over courgette subsidies in Brussels! Sucks to be you, but never mind! Great for us!

FFS. This is the very definition of an isolated elite making political decisions without consent. Once we've left the EU, we won't have to worry about any sort of integration, nor about Turkish accession, but not in a good way. Turkish accession is never going to happen, at least not in the lifetime of anyone able to vote. Why not say, unambiguously, that the British government will veto any application and have done with it? This is worth the margin of victory, at least.

Neckguard, I was not trying to defend Britain's policy, I have many problems with it too. I was just trying to answer your question.

I'm so sorry you've been left out to dry on the doorsteps. And the worst thing is that I'm not sure anything could have been done really differently, this is the result of years and years of political hypocrisy, and you can't row back on all of it in a few weeks. Voters aren't that credulous.

Voters aren't that credulous.

I'm a firm believer in the maxim that the electorate are never wrong. When we in Labour present bad leaders and stupid manifestos, the voters tell us, and we lose (as we will lose, catastrophically, in 2020). It's just that on this one, I fear that voters are punishing the political classes for their stupidity (and we in Labour failed utterly on immigration, with a policy which only worked inside Zone 2) with something that will long term harm the very people who are doing the punishing.

Fucking Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper proved why they were unfit to lead the party with "yes, we made mistakes on immigration, but it'll be different next time". You were senior cabinet ministers at the time, you muppets, why didn't you think of that when it mattered? I saw Cooper speak last year some times, and she still wouldn't admit anything much beyond "oh, it might be a small problem, but we were and are right really". Fools.

Neck, I'd argue that all the things you listed were things the politicians in question thought were either politically beneficial in the long term or at the least a storm they could weather.