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Brexit

Name me one good thing that we have from the EU...

160 replies

Maursh · 10/06/2016 11:22

which we would not have if we left. I am not after scaremongering rhetoric, but facts. I really like to have a balanced point of view, but I cannot for the life of me see any reason to remain. So give me some FACTS

OP posts:
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MrsBlackthorn · 10/06/2016 12:02

It doesn't sound like the OP is really after any facts at all. Just an opportunity to refute any suggestion the EU might ever have done us some good.

toofarfromcivilisation · 10/06/2016 12:05

Yep, I agree.

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 12:06
MrsBlackthorn · 10/06/2016 12:15

When we joined the EU we were the "sick man of Europe". By the late 60s the three founder members, France, West Germany and Italy, produced more person than we did. Between its founding in 1958 and our entry in 73, GDP rose by 95% in those countries but only 50% here.

After joining, we began to catch up. Our GDP per person has grown faster than those three, and in 2013 finally became more prosperous than those three countries.

It's impossible to say exactly what would have happened if we hadn't joined, but Prof Nauro Campos (of Brunel University) has tried. He found the closest approximation would be a combination of New Zealand and Argentina, both of which fell behind the US and continental Europe in the same period. The UK economy outperformed those two countries by 23%. He modelled 1000 other combinations of countries whose record had previously resembled our own, and in the majority of models Britain's performance hugely outperformed.

Most economist have little doubt EU membership has translated into more trade. See the research by Daniel Vernazza for a reasonably easy to read example.

Maursh · 10/06/2016 12:17

Well I have to go out for a few hours but will be back later so keep 'em coming.

It doesn't sound like the OP is really after any facts at all. Just an opportunity to refute any suggestion the EU might ever have done us some good. Why is this MrsBlackthorn, because I asked you to back your claim with numbers? Doesn't seem wholly unreasonable since this is what I asked for from the outset - facts and not opinion.

OP posts:
Nydj · 10/06/2016 12:24

That's a great sketch Bertrand

Maursh · 10/06/2016 12:24

And posting here without credit to the original authors is dishonest

OP posts:
Pangurban1 · 10/06/2016 12:28

Equal pay is brilliant. What was wonderful and recognised that some areas have predominantly female workers, so equal pay for work of equal value was critical.

Pangurban1 · 10/06/2016 12:29

Oops. Just read the headline.

agapanthii · 10/06/2016 12:32

*Lots of research funding and collaboration. Our universities will suffer if we leave, and I imagine university fees would have to go up to fill the gap.

Rhetoric. What is "lots"? Numbers and links, please?*

NOT Rhetoric Marush. Proper, actual data on this one ( for a change, I'll admit.).
Report Here
and FT news here.

MrsBlackthorn · 10/06/2016 12:34

If only there were some kind of online system where you could put in what you were looking for and be given examples to choose from and read through Hmm

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 12:37

You mean- like some sort of searchable encyclopaedia/ newspaper sort of thing?

toofarfromcivilisation · 10/06/2016 12:58

Won't happen in my lifetime! Tsk!

eyebrowse · 10/06/2016 12:59

Workers rights

Rules stopping pollution & climate change

Good relationships with other European countries which share our values e.g. equal rights for women

Easy to trade with out nearest neighbours geographically (which means lower transport costs than exporting elsewhere)

Research money and collaboration leading to new discoveries, medicines etc.

Money for films and the arts

Sorry could not stop at one reason...

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 13:01

Sounds like some sort of foreign witchcraft to me......

member · 10/06/2016 13:25

Safer travel; since the 1970s the number of road deaths has fallen considerably, from over 7,700 deaths in 1972, to 1,754 in 2012 despite increased car ownership. There was a 50% drop in road deaths between 2001 when the first EU target for road safety was introduced, and 2012. A large part of this is increased occupant safety standards.

Coversely, if you look at the period 2010 - 2015 when the UK coalition government came to power, road deaths have only decreased by 5%. This is because central government have refused to prescribe national road safety targets, preferring to devolve the reponsibility to local councils. With council budgets being slashed, road safety does not have the priority it did and standards are patchy.

The EU also has a "blacklist" of airline operators which are not allowed to operate within Europe because of poor safety standards/records. Who's to say that if we left the EU that UK governments wouldn't allow dodgy operators to have slots at UK airports if they paid enough cash?

We need a degree of parentalism from Europe if we aren't to become an island where we allow market forces alone to govern policy.

Appletreeblossom123 · 10/06/2016 15:34

It is a fact that currently if a business is sold from one company to another (or the business is transferred from one company to another in the same group as part of a corporate reorganisation) the employment of the employees in the business will as a matter of law automatically transfer on the same terms (apart from pensions where the legal position is a lot more complicated!) to the company that acquires the business. This is an employment protection measure which employees enjoy by virtue of the Transfer of Undertakings (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations 2006, commonly referred to as "TUPE". The 2006 TUPE regulations were an updated version of the TUPE regulations originally enacted in 1981 in order to comply with an EU Directive known as the Acquired Rights Directive.

It is a fact that while we remain in the EU (in the absence of a repeal of the Acquired Rights Directive, which there are no plans to do) the British government is required to protect employees' rights with legislation along the lines of TUPE. It is a fact that if, by reason of leaving the EU, Britain is no longer required to comply with the Acquired Rights Directive, a government with a parliamentary majority could repeal TUPE. Whether it would choose to do so is a matter of conjecture. However, I do not trust the current government to provide legal protection for workers' rights because it is a fact that a Conservative government increased the time limit for bringing an unfair dismissal claim from one year to two years' continuous employment. This means that it is a fact that there are many circumstances in which an employee could work for an employer with an unblemished record for almost two years, be dismissed for a completely unfair reason and have no legal come back against the employer. It is also a fact that a Conservative government has increased the fees for bringing Employment Tribunal claims to a point where there is potential for an employee to have a valid claim for unfair dismissal, but not be able to afford to bring the claim.

So if the legal identity of your employer has changed as a result of a business sale or reorganisation, and the employer hasn't simply taken the opportunity to tear up your old terms and conditions (or sack you happy in the knowledge that you have less than 2 years' service with the new employer so have no right to bring an unfair dismissal claim) you have (even if you didn't realise it) been enjoying a right derived from EU law.

I hope I have been sufficiently factual for you there OP. If you need me to cite any more sources I shall do my best!

BikeRunSki · 10/06/2016 15:39

Lots and lots of environmental protection and flood risk management legislation has come out of Europe.

claig · 10/06/2016 16:15

'Name me one good thing that we have from the EU'
'So give me some FACTS'

I was going to suggest you have a read of a publicly funded taxpayer paid for government bureaucrat Remain leaflet. But when I saw you wanted 'FACTS', I realised that was a no go.

I will keep thinking.

claig · 10/06/2016 16:20

'Rhetoric.'

I was going to suggest you listen to a Cameron speech on the EU, but when I saw that you are not easily fooled by 'Rhetoric', I realised that was not a helpful suggestion.

Spinflight · 10/06/2016 16:24

Eurovision song contest. :)

penisbeakerlaminateflooringetc · 10/06/2016 16:25

Healthcare IS free at point of use within the EU as long as you remember your EHIC card. (Would be stupid not to get one.)

The UK then gets billed for it, just like the bills of any EU citizen getting healthcare in the UK gets sent to their home country.

penisbeakerlaminateflooringetc · 10/06/2016 16:28

Paid maternity leave and paid holiday.

minniewinnie · 10/06/2016 16:33

£10.6million for this project planned in Cornwall from the ERDF www.cornwall.gov.uk/business/economic-development/geothermal/funding-for-deep-geothermal-projects/

minniewinnie · 10/06/2016 16:35

Overall €438million for regional development from the ERDF where I live www.erdfconvergence.org.uk/growth-programme/erdf