Farage vs Call Me Dave tonight ITV 9 pm

[claig]

The first half should contain a lot of facts and truth, the second half will probably be outrageous exaggeration and fearmongering.

"Nigel Farage to question David Cameron’s patriotism and 'integrity' in ITV's second major live EU referendum television debate"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/nigel-farage-to-question-david-camerons-patriotism-and-integrity/

Teenage whizzkids from Oxbridge very worried, need to pull a rabbit out of the hat desperately. Right on cue, an Etonian puts his oar in just before the debate. Call Me Dave breathes a sigh of relief and grasps at the straw offered to him, teenage whizzkids probably advising Call Me Dave to follow this line up. Establishment biting their nails in anticipation of tonight's debate. They know Farage is good, he demolished Clegg. Don't be surprised if you hear Call Me Dave use the term "nonsense on stilts", that seems to be the teenage whizzkids' last card. The only surprise will be that the term is not used for the Remain campaign's economic forecasts.

"The Archbishop of Canterbury has launched a furious attack on Nigel Farage for 'legitimising racism'.

Justin Welby said the Ukip leader's claim that there could be Cologne-style sex attacks if we stay in the EU was 'inexcusable'.

The intervention, hours before Mr Farage is due to take part in a televised EU referendum special with David Cameron, came as the Archbishop gave evidence to MPs."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3629540/Archbishop-slams-Farage-legitimising-racism-warning-Cologne-style-sex-attacks-Britain-unless-leave-EU.html

Looking forward to this!

Tory Remainers are saying they want to avoid "blue on blue" conflict. Surely that's just an excuse for trying to get Farage to debate Cameron, instead of having the courage to debate one of the pro-Brexit MPs who would come across with more mainstream views. I'd have liked to have seen more from Liam Fox, Dan Hannan, Gove, Boris, Priti Patel or Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Ah well, let's hope for a decent debate later!

I think they are scared stiff of Farage, apart from their tactic of accusing him of racism, which is their usual trick. Unfortunately, Cameron won't be debating Farage one-to-one, Cameron has a separate 30 minutes without Farage.

The audience will probably be packed with booers of Farage, the usual thing, but I expect that the polls afterwards will show that Farage wins rather than Call Me Dave.

Hopefully Farage will highlight the indecent negligence Cameron has displayed towards proper planning and preparation for Brexit.

Gove pretty much refused to criticize his colleague, and looked a bit of a dolt in the process, doubt Farage will be quite as shy!

Hi Claig I knew you'd be on this like beans on toast. I always enjoy hearing what the political elite are up to.

' I always enjoy hearing what the political elite are up to.'

They are bricking it. Farage put in a good performance and now their servant, Call Me Dave, has to take the stage. His lips will be pursed, his face will grow red and his nose will grow longer as the pressure builds up on him. The elite are worried because Call Me Dave is the best they have got, a Bullingdonian from Eton who drops his aitches to win the people over.

He is already shouting and rasping as he grasps for anything to save him and the elite have their heads in their hands saying "oh no! our game is up, with Call Me Dave we were sold a pup"

He isn't rasping. He isn't doing well, but then unlike Farage he's also got to defend his actual vs theoretical governmental position as well as a view on the EU.

'He isn't rasping'

Give him time. He is drinking more water than a fish. As he raises the decibels, his poll ratings will fall and his brow will be sodden with sweat. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Platitudes and pratitudes "quitters" all the lines the teenage whizzkids told him to write on the back of his hand.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Call Me Dave, he has no answers, just teenage rhetoric fed to him by whizzkids. Every question from teh audience has him looking like he is about t say "it's a fair cop, guv, I give up and join the people, Farage was right all along. The elite has got me over a barrel, but it's not worth it, I want to join you".

Nope, can't agree. He's not sweating, not raspy. Can't say he's going to have changed minds, but I think he's said what he thinks and he's right - this referendum was our want. We shouldn't be voting on the basis of whether we like Dave, but he wasn't nearly as repellent to the audience as Farage was,

Farage was good with honest answers. Cameron was the usual spiel, the usual puff, "quitters", "Little England", all the best spin the teenage controllers could come up with for him.

Let's see what the polls say.

ITV voter panel nearly all for Cameron

Let's see if they give a real voter poll of the viewing audience.

Farage didn't really answer a lot of the questions especially the pharmaceutical one, or on black voters. Or even attempt the one on how the EU would look in 20 if UK remained in. He used the time to issue rhetoric or come all ye "we're British, we're better than that".

Dave at least tried to address the questions asked, even when they weren't comfortable. On why the Conservative Party promised something they couldn't deliver. Nobody asked them why the amount of immigration was higher on what the Conservative Party had 100% control over, than EU migrants who have freedom of movement.

'Farage didn't really answer a lot of the questions especially the pharmaceutical one'

I think that was too specific so he generalised it to not believeing that they were here just because of the EU. The audience questioner obviously works in the European medical centre in London, but it is not really critical for the country as a whole.

'or on black voters'
The black voter question was the usual preplanned and selected question to make out he is racist, but he says he supports the Commonwealth over the European Union and has black voters and members of UKIP.

'Or even attempt the one on how the EU would look in 20 if UK remained in'

He said it is done for either way, which I think is right. The Establishment and its servants are trying to sellotape it together but it is now finished as populist parties bring it down as Samson brought the house down, as it can't manage the migrant crisis and has run out of money and will soon have to resort to bail-ins to save the bankers.

Are they going to deny us a poll? Is this an Establishment stipulation that no poll should be released?

Not sure either of them really landed a punch or brought up anything new but CMD did look more composed.

He didn't have all the answers and the poor 40 year old chap who had no prospect of owning a house with his kids all living in one room was more persuasive than anything farage said.

Pretty poor performance by farage on the whole however I suspect it was more about how many voters he turned off than persuaded. Missed a bullet there I think.

I'm switching to BBC Newsnight. Let me know if ITV ever release an audience poll.

Well that was a disappointment all round!

Yes, much too short, 30 minutes was not enough time to grill them.

Melanie Phillips saying that Cameron is insulting leave voters by implying that they are "quitters" and "Little Englanders".

Cameron reminds me a bit of Brian in this Monty Python clip. He is with the Romans (the EU) and says he hates them, just like Cameron tells the people that he is supposedly "frustrated" by the EU, and the People's Front of Judea is the Leave Campaign and the splitters are the Tory Remainers.

No, I think the guy said he worked in the pharmaceutical industry. He was asking the question about the pharmaceutical companies based in the UK where it also fulfils the requirement to be established in the EU. It has to be more than a PO box. They need a licence holder and a Qualified Person. Medicines that are imported into the EU have to be retested. All that adds time and expense. Apart from any other taxes and tariffs on those medicines from custom if they originate outside the EU. Of course companies can try to minimise their costs as much as possible but these are all things that companies based in the UK don't need to deal with now. It may be a similar situation for other industries. Their situation would change if the UK wasn't in the EU any more. It is estimated that the pharma industry currently contributes around 10% of the UK's GDP and generates over 3 billion pounds in trade surplus. So not nothing.
www.pharmexec.com/brexit-and-uk-pharma-industry

Of course the movement of people could affect skilled workers as well and it could be that the money received for research may dry up. The pharmaceutical industry and regulations could have repercussions for the UK as a whole. Access to new medicines may be delayed and " would the UK have to go through a separate authorization process, increasing the regulatory burden for many pharma companies?" The costs of medicines could go up.

The EU regulatory body being based in London was a different point.

Business Insider have a story that a Brexit would make it more difficult for people to get hold of new medicines. Chairman of UK MHRA Sir Michael Rawlins said "Brexit would leave us entirely on our own, Barmy"

He wasn't able to answer vis a vis black voters. He said something like ukip had lots of black voters but couldn't say what this was based on or amounts when pressed. He could just have said he hadn't a clue.

And no. Farage didn't even attempt to answer the last question.

"EU referendum debate: David Cameron suggests voters backing Brexit are 'quitters' who don't love the UK"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/eu-referendum-debate--david-cameron-and-ukip-leader-nigel-farage/

Still no official poll of the IT V debate. Possibly orders from above for no poll to be released. Howver, some good analysis in the Telegraph

"David Cameron v Nigel Farage: who won the ITV EU referendum debate?
...
James Kirkup: On a difficult night for the PM, Nigel Farage will go to bed with a grin on his face
...
Janet Daley: Nigel Farage showed the Leave campaign what they are missing
...
Juliet Samuel: David Cameron patronised the audience and had no answers to the immigration question

“Listen to the experts,” was the top line from David Cameron. True to his message, he couldn’t help but talk down to his audience, although he wasn’t quite as peevish as last week."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/david-cameron-v-nigel-farage-who-won-the-itv-eu-referendum-debat/

But the general polls are worrying for the non-quitters

"Britain's EU Out campaign takes 4-5 percentage point lead: YouGov and ICM polls"

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll-idUSKCN0YR0YB

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/david-cameron-v-nigel-farage-who-won-the-itv-eu-referendum-debat/

Yeah I think the Leave camp should be a bit more honest about the effects on certain industries but make the case for a more equitable and balanced economy where the average Sue gets a better deal.

Whilst Farage was surprisingly weak and flustered Cameron probably overplayed his hand.

It isn't so much that we don't believe that we could stay in and fight, it's that we don't trust him and his cronies to do it! He quit and folded rather easily on his renegotiation so it's a bit rich for him to say that we are fighters rather than quitters.

Hell even when he used the veto they just organised something without us. When he refused to pay their increased bill he folded and coughed up what a month later?

Seems he expects us to pick up the tab for his weakness.