EU just voted to start an EU wide tax system

[BritBrit]

On Wednesday night the EU voted for an EU tax system with all EU citizens to be given EU taxpayer identification numbers. Clearly the EU want to setup EU wide taxes & for them to control national taxes

What are your thoughts on this?

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/fox-on-friday-the-eu-makes-a-stealthy-move-towards-common-european-taxation/

Fair enough, will reserve judgement until other information is available. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's true, but will wait and see!

This is indeed real news but it's interesting which outlets decided not to report upon it. It is as you say an open goal for the Brexit campaign which would explain why the BBC and others decided not to report it.

BritBrit's posts are actually on the verge of changing my mind

Wappers, quite a few people have said that Boris/Gove/Farage/Cameron, or other people they've come across in this debate, would put them off voting a particular way. But I feel it is not about personalities, as there are people I admire but disagree with, and vice versa. I'd tend to look at it in terms of the issues (democracy, money, immigration, the future of the EU/UK etc) but also to choose which, for you, are the most important issues. For me it's democracy, for a lot of Remainers it's the economy.

The order-order website is a well known, trusted blog and website in political circles. The vote really did happen last week and I hope more people get to hear about it.

I have no idea of OP's personality. It's the constant "look what they've done now" tone of the posts. Like I said, I'm currently planning on voting to leave based on the negative effect of the EU on the industry I live and work in but the disingenuous, alarmist tone is making me wonder about the overall quality of the "out" argument. If this is the depths to which we have plumbed to make a case then I'm not sure it's a very convincing one. Sadly.

There are alarmist tones on both sides. There will be economic disaster! The UK will attract the entire population of the world and will sink! The Tories could be in power for the next 800 years! Fortunately there are rather more moderate arguments in each direction too.

Just had a look at the order-order website and it's full of conspiracist language ("the EU plots", "the EU wants" with zero evidence for their claim...) and cites a UKIP source to make their point. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The tax ID thing is common sense, in my opinion. As someone who lived between France and the UK for a while, it's been my experience that national administrations have no efficient way of communicating information about healthcare, retirement, tax residence across the border. It would save everyone time and money, it would make it simpler for national health systems to claim money back for treating foreign patients, etc.

The EU text posted on the order-order website:

Proper identification of taxpayers is essential to effective exchange of information between tax administrations. The creation of European Taxpayer Identification Number (EU TIN) would provide the best means for this identification. It would allow any third party to quickly, easily and correctly identify and record TINs in cross-border relations and serve as a basis for effective automatic exchange of information between member states tax administrations.

"No taxation without representation". Chuck the espresso in the channel and take a leaf out of the U.S. books.

Couldn't agree more - it's a scandal that tax-paying foreigners can't vote in the GE

Also, we do have representation at the EU

So is it true that this EU tax will be on top of the money we contribute to the EU, and the UK taxes we already pay? And that Corporation Tax can't be set by our own Treasury to keep this country's businesses competitive, and so that having a strong financial sector is less beneficial to us?

No, it's not true, because there's no new "EU tax".

What they're talking about here is a system of taxpayer identification common to the entire EU.

Quoting from the link in the OP:

"Wednesday’s legislation lays the foundations for an EU-wide direct taxation. It gives the bureaucrats of Brussels the ability to tax every person across the continent at the point of payment, on top of their national tax contributions."

Yeah, that's because it's apparently one of those conspiracy theory eurosceptic websites.

The facts: the EU is moving to streamline the various national tax identifier system, so that every EU citizen has a unique tax number. Obvious advantages in terms of cutting red tape, tracking benefits, cutting down on tax evasion, etc.

The inference from eurosceptics: this means that the EU secretly wants to start taxing individuals, and is moving stealthily behind everyone back to establish the admin that would make it possible.

Are the eurosceptics' guesses right? Maybe, maybe not. But right now these are guesses, not facts.

Isn't it frustrating that people can make shit up and people believe it just because they read it on the Internet.

This claim is utter tosh, if it was true the Daily Mail would be on the case. I did not realise people could be that gullible. Always check the source, very revealing!

I think you'll find that europa.eu is the EU's own website. So you believe it only if it's in the Daily Mail and refuse to ignore it when it come from 'the horses mouth?'
I would say that rather this news in some way benefitting what you call 'desperate outers' it's actually a very inconvenient truth for those who are desperate to deny and refuse to acknowledge that the EU is actually moving towards political union that will result in a Europe-wide superstate.

Yeah, that's because it's apparently one of those conspiracy theory eurosceptic websites.

It's europa.eu The EU's own website.

The facts: the EU is moving to streamline the various national tax identifier system, so that every EU citizen has a unique tax number. Obvious advantages in terms of cutting red tape, tracking benefits, cutting down on tax evasion, etc.

Centralistion and harmonisation - the EU then controls the tax system. If we had video evidence that the EU drowns kittens I dare say some EU=apologists would find a good reason for them doing so.

The inference from eurosceptics: this means that the EU secretly wants to start taxing individuals, and is moving stealthily behind everyone back to establish the admin that would make it possible.

No, not behind people's backs. With the agreement of the EU member Governments who probably see a huge saving to be made in not having to maintain their own revenue systems. In full view of a disinterested public who seem to think it's just a paranoid Eurosceptic conspiracy.

Are the eurosceptics' guesses right? Maybe, maybe not. But right now these are guesses, not facts.

The fact is that it's happening. When Governments collect data they don't always use it in beneficial ways. Would you be happy for the EU to start a centralised system for medical records, to record your blood group, genetic material? Where will it end?

Meh makes sense. This is already pretty much in place for those who move goods within eu countries via the EORI scheme - it's just a number that can be recognised by any country. It's not a combined income tax system ffs.

It must be costing an absolute fortune in admin staff for the EU to be collating so much information. Not content with just screwing us for several £million a day for this nonsense it also wants to see how much and how each member is raising its taxes. I wonder why? Oh don't tell me, to see how much blood it can squeeze out of each stone.

ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/gen_info/economic_analysis/tax_structures/index_en.htm

It's europa.eu The EU's own website.

No, the website cited in the OP, which is the website Winterbiscuit quoted prompting my response, is conservativewoman.co.uk.

The fact is that it's happening.

No, what is happening is an EU-wide tax identification number. What you think the EU may decide to try to do in the future is not a fact. It's your opinion.

It's europa.eu The EU's own website.

No, the website cited in the OP, which is the website Winterbiscuit quoted prompting my response, is conservativewoman.co.uk.

That is what triggered this thread, but, as all discussions do, we moved on to other areas - such as the link to europa.eu, which is the site that I cited.

No, what is happening is an EU-wide tax identification number. What you think the EU may decide to try to do in the future is not a fact. It's your opinion.

It's called vision. The ability to imagine how data can be exploited in the future, rather than sticking to the turgid acceptance that data is being collated without considering what purposes it could be used for.

which is the site that I cited.

I'm sure you cited it, but I was not responding to you. I was responding to the post by Winterbiscuit directly above mine. Winterbiscuit posted a quote from the link in the OP, specifying that it was taken from the link in the OP. Which was not europa.eu.

Oh ClashCityRocker that's far too sensible and mundane, I mean where's the conspiracy in that?

Isn't it frustrating that people can make shit up and people believe it

Like the massively overblown Treasury warnings favoured by the Remain side?

Are the doubters on this thread gullible to the extreme or just wilfully ignorant? Does the words 'centralising' and 'taxation' in the same sentence not ring even the faintest of alarm bells? Whatever happened to democracy and the basic right to elect and remove the officials we entrust with these decisions? An absolute death blow to the ideals of living in a democratic society. The very fabric of our rights is being torn to pieces and ground into the dirt and we're too stupid to recognise it's happening. We probably deserve all that is coming to us. Pity that future generations who have played no part will suffer the consequences too though.

Having some sort of common tax ID number makes sense surely? The aim is presumably to facilitate the application of double taxation provisions between European states (to ensure that indiciduals and companies aren't taxed twice on the same income) and to reduce the opportunity for tax evasion and other types of fraud.

The aim is presumably to facilitate the application of double taxation provisions between European states (to ensure that indiciduals and companies aren't taxed twice on the same income) and to reduce the opportunity for tax evasion and other types of fraud.

Yes. If you work in more than on EU country in the year, or have income from more than one EU country, it's very easy to get either double taxed, or not taxed enough. It happened to me a few years ago, and it was such an administrative nightmare to rectify - massive waste of everyone's time and of the taxpayer's money. I was also the one who noticed and notified tax authorities, they would never have realised otherwise.