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Ethical living

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Solar Panels

39 replies

Nappyzone · 23/02/2008 09:28

Hope this is the right area to post...
Dh got elec and gas bill yesterday and has gone off on one again about solar panels and free elec and hot water. Does anyone have such panels or turbine thingys from b and q perhaps or used any other providers they coul recommend. Did it cost a fortune? Also saw the link on good energy providers - are they comparable cost wise? Thank in advance.

OP posts:
SlugsNSnails · 23/02/2008 09:30

Ooh NappiesGalore has solar panels... but probably didn't have a budget. She might know summat though

SlugsNSnails · 23/02/2008 09:31

(Oh it is the paragraph loving one btw)

Nappyzone · 23/02/2008 11:23

Hello Flamey - whats with the name change?? Oh great NAPPIES!!!!!!!! come e mail me ....

OP posts:
ballbaby · 23/02/2008 12:47

You can find suppliers here. Wind turbines aren't efficient in all areas so you need to be sure before you buy one that it's not dead money you're spending. You can be sure that b and q aren't interested in helping people to be green, they just want to increase their profits.

You can sell back electricity to the national grid with good energy, but obviously that's only if you make more than you need.

I would compare what you pay each year for electricity with the up front costs of solar/turbine. Remember to add in maintenance. I pay £360 a year with Good Energy for 4 bed house which i think is pretty good.

candyy · 23/02/2008 12:59

Check with your local council, some have grants that will help you pay towards having solar panels fitted. Also you can get loft and cavity wall insulation fitted which should save you around £200 a year on your energy bills.

The energy efficiency advice centre should be able to give you some help on 0800 512 012.

bobsmum · 23/02/2008 13:17

We got solar panels installed just before Christmas - will get dh on here - he knows more about them having done most of the reading up on them.

ib · 23/02/2008 13:35

I have both photovoltaic and solar thermal panels. The thermal ones (hot water and heating) are absolutely fantastic and I would not be without them.

The PV ones are not particularly cost effective - once you have added the charger, the inverter and all the other pieces of kit it's very expensive. I need them as am not on the grid, but am not sure I would have them if I was.

Happy to answer any questions at all, have had them for 3 years now so pretty familiar with the detail!

ib · 23/02/2008 13:38

It's worth bearing in mind that most of the electricity you use is in the evening, whereas with panels you produce it during the day - the only way to make it work is if you have a 2 way contract with a supplier or have batteries (plus backup power, there are things you cannot run off batteries).

Bobsdad · 23/02/2008 13:49

We have had a Gasokol Tecsol system installed. It is rated at approx. 1,840 kWh per annum yield - this is a figure based on our location in central Scotland. You should get better if you are further south. They are solar thermal panels, that is, they collect solar radiation and dump it as heat into our hot water cylinder. The other kind of solar panels are photovoltaic, which convert light into electricity, but they are vastly more expensive.

If you're in Scotland there is still a grant scheme available. Otherwise you will have to be more creative and see if there are local schemes in your area that will help. Our system cost us £2,235 in total and attracted a 30% grant from the Scottish Householder and Communities Renewables Initiative, administered by Clearskies which used to handle grants for the English scheme as well.

If you install solar panels alongside your existing heating you may need a new cylinder in your airing cupboard. The cylinder will need to have two heat exchanger coils in it, so it can receive input from your gas boiler as well as the panels. It will probably be a fair bit taller than your existing one.

Our system monitors the temperature at the bottom of the cylinder and whenever the temperature on the panels exceeds it by more than 8 deg. C, it activates the circulation pump. Even while your gas system is operative in the middle of winter, it can be quite cool at the bottom of the cylinder so on a sunny day, the panels can make a contribution.

Last week, we had very sunny, very cold weather here but in direct sunshine, by 3.30pm, the panels were up to 65 deg. C. and had lifted the temperature in the bottom of our cylinder by about 20 degrees in under three hours. The air temperature was barely above freezing at the time.

In the summer, they should be able to provide all our hot water even on a cloudy day (they absorb infra-red radiation, which penetrates clouds quite well, especially in the summer).

We are off mains gas here and have had a biomass stove installed as well - it burns compressed wood pellets. Our carbon footprint is now practically zero.

RTKangaDYSONMummy · 23/02/2008 13:54

DS is doing a project for school on Solar energy this weekend do you have any websites you could reccommend he look at

Thanks

Spidermama · 23/02/2008 14:01

Very interesting bobsdad. We're looing into this too. Our combi boiler is on its last legs and we're planning to get a multi fuel Rayburn for cooking, hot water and some radiators in combination with solar panels for extra power.

I will be watching this thread with interest. I'm hoping panels become more affordable or more subsidised because they really are the way forward.

Bobsdad · 23/02/2008 14:01

You should find some stuff at www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/ - lots there on solar and everything else too. That's where I started, anyway.

Millarkie · 23/02/2008 14:16

Bobsdad - could you tell me more about your biomass stove please.
We currently have an oil fired boiler (no gas to our village). We are very stingy with our heating and have insulated everywhere but oil bill is still huge and I would be happier using something 'greener' even if it cost the same. Have been thinking about solar panels for water (but am a bit unsure as to whether this gives you hot water or can feed into the central heating as well?).
We looked at a biomass boiler recently, but the supplier only had the ones which fired up once a week and stored the heat in a heat sink - which confused me a bit.

Bobsdad · 23/02/2008 14:56

Millarkie - we have an Extraflame Lucrezia Idro. You can download an info sheet on the entire Extraflame range from here (PDF). This is not the supplier we used though.

We replaced an open coal fire with back boiler and our annual fuel cost is currently projected to be about £800, down from about £1,200. Our house is wood, with poorly insulated walls, although it has new double glazing and loft insulation to current standards.

Depending on your supplier, you would get your fuel for about £2.20 per 10Kg bag of 6mm diameter pellets, provided you are buying at least one tonne at a time (i.e. 100 bags). Our heat requirements mean we get though 2 bags per day, or about one bag per six hours of continuous use. Unless it is especially cold outside we have the power output of the stove set very low. If it is especially chilly we turn it up - our house does not retain heat at all well.

Biomass stoves are not as controllable as gas or oil. Timing them is a bit of an artform. We have learned that we need to have it set to come on at the very least one hour before we get up in the morning. The heat goes to the cylinder first, then to the radiators once the cylinder is up to temp. This takes about 40 minutes. Once the heat gets to the rads, your house will warm up as quickly as it does with your current system.

When the system switches off, it has to burn up the wood remaining in the burn pot, then continue to circulate water to the radiators until the stove has cooled sufficiently, so it the radiators will still be hot for almost half an hour after you ask the system to shut down. A little more foresight is therefore required, but once you're used to it it's no problem. Just to add to that, you would find it would run more efficiently if set to go for a long period at low power rather than switching it on and off all the time, which it sounds like is what you're doing at the moment with your oil.

I would say based on my research that the cost comparison with oil is already favourable - just - and is only going to become more so. I know a few people round here who are thinking about what to do when their current oil boilers reach the end of their lives, and none of them wants to buy a new oil system.

If you have a large house with a big demand for heat, you need a larger boiler with a much larger, self-feeding hopper. Ours holds 45kg and we top it up every evening. If you get yourself one of these Okofen babies, then you can put an entire winter's supply of fuel in it in one go and forget about it. You need a sizeable garage or outbuilding for it though.

Even with the Lucrezia system you need somewhere you can store at least a tonne of pellets - we built a new shed, which has a 3x2m floor area, and one half of it is stacked to the roof with a little over a tonne.

On the subject of solar panels, you can't use them to heat your radiators. They don't generate enough heat at the time of year you would need them to. Solar thermal panels dump their heat into a cylinder, where your hot water gets its heat from. The water in your radiators is, in most systems, heated directly by the boiler without going anywhere near the cylinder. You can get systems where everything is fed from a 'thermal heat store', so theoretically the solar panels would be contributing towards the radiators, however in such systems the thermal heat store is invariably huge and expensive - and the contribution from the panels in midwinter would still be modest at best.

Some more useful info on wood heating to be had here.

Millarkie · 23/02/2008 15:51

Wow, Thanks Bobsdad, that's great.
We have a sprawling house and already have a 'boiler room' (sort-of converted garage attached to the house) so we could cope with one of the self-feeding boiler without too much hassle I think.
Have been reading through stuff on the energy saving trust site too.

Nappyzone · 23/02/2008 20:13

Thankyou so much - i will copy this thread to dh as i dont want him becomming a mumsnetter lol! Im thinking we should go solar then for heating and stuff but not elec am i right? We live in a modern 4 bed detached new build type house - you know new estate shoe box type lol! Need to get a guy our i is thinking!

OP posts:
Bobsdad · 24/02/2008 00:11

Nappyzone, pleeeeeze don't install any kind of electric system. It will cost you an absolute fortune.

Millarkie · 08/03/2008 16:29

Bobsdad - are you around?

Could I ask how much your solar panels/biomass boiler cost please? I'm trying to work out what time frame we need to afford a similar set-up. (We have space for a self-feeding boiler, but also have an existing woodburning stove which we could replace with a stove+back boiler like yours)

Thanks.

Bobsdad · 18/03/2008 14:30

I'm not around here much, best to shout my DW and have her attract my attention (she is very attractive)

The total system cost was, very roughly, £12,000. Remember we got a grant by virtue of living in Scotland though, the grant scheme is still available here.

laundrylover · 18/03/2008 15:01

Hi all,

We are thinking of having a pellet stove in our dining room, hopefully with a back boiler in the chimney to heat radiators...very early stages of planning here! We have an open fire in the living room but couldn't chop and store enough wood for a log stove so pellets seem the answer. We would still use our (new) combi boiler for hot water at this stage.

I've been looking at grants here but we would need to get cavity wall insulation first - have done loft this winter.

You can do a postcode search here to see what grants you can get.

PeatBog · 18/03/2008 15:09

Another thank you to Bobsdad - we are about to move to central Scotland and asked my parents what they spend on oil per year - a horrifying amount - so I'm copying this for dh's attention .

Bobsdad · 18/03/2008 15:29

If anyone would find it useful, I can set up a quick web page with a gallery of photos of the various parts of our installation?

laundrylover · 18/03/2008 16:56

Ooh yes please Bobsdad!

Bobsdad · 18/03/2008 23:49

Right, give me a couple of days to get it together - I've been meaning to take some photos anyway.

BoysOnToast · 18/03/2008 23:51

we have solar panles which should provide all our hot water for most of the year apparently. with fuel costs rising, it pays to have it done in the long term. pricey to do initially tho. if you think youre staying put for a long time, def worth it.

some councils give incentives i think?