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Ethical living

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Solar Panels

39 replies

Nappyzone · 23/02/2008 09:28

Hope this is the right area to post...
Dh got elec and gas bill yesterday and has gone off on one again about solar panels and free elec and hot water. Does anyone have such panels or turbine thingys from b and q perhaps or used any other providers they coul recommend. Did it cost a fortune? Also saw the link on good energy providers - are they comparable cost wise? Thank in advance.

OP posts:
Bobsdad · 25/03/2008 13:45

We returned home from our Easter break to find a tank full of very useably hot water - the pellet stove had not operated for 96 hours so I conclude it was the solar panels that were responsible for this, rather than heat retained in the cylinder. Not bad, considering the pure Baltic temperatures we had all through the holidays.

I'm delighted, as well as a little relieved, despite the science I've never quite got my head round the notion of how they actually work. But work they have.

I haven't forgotten to take photos of the set-up by the way; we've just been away. I'm going to do it this week though, because the community newspaper wants a photo as well.

peanutbutterkid · 26/03/2008 11:28

We have (cough, ahem) a roof mounted wind turbine.
From what I can tell, we are probably getting about as good a performance as can be hoped for, and we are pretty sure it will never pay for itself (we got the windsave one, with the £700 grant). It could work out, though, if the price of electricity just keeps going up.

We do have a wood-burning stove, and that is cost efficient (we reckon), as a method to heat some of the house. Will have paid for itself in 8-10 years, anyway.

Insulation is still the most cost effective thing most people can do to reduce energy usage, filling cavity walls, getting roof to 25cm depth, dg windows, etc.

We also looked at solar hot water, but it again really wouldn't pay for itself. Our total water usage is just too low (about 250 litres per day, of which probably only half is actually hot water usage). Would take something like 50 years to get our investment back. We are watching development of photovoltaic, though, because a summer/day time source of electricity could be great. Still too pricey at the moment, though.

bossybritches · 26/03/2008 11:39

Anyone put solar panel in on a listed building before?

We don't think our council would let us pu them in even though the pitch of our roof would hide them from publlic view

Bobsdad · 26/03/2008 14:29

This is Finlaystone House in Inverclyde, west of Glasgow. It's grade B listed (more or less equivalent to grade 2* in England & Wales), yet it has solar panels - you can see them attached to the left hand side of the high chimney stack on the tower at the left of the photo (but only just - I only know they're solar panels because I've been there and seen them).

There is no reason for a council to reject solar panels out of hand, even on a locally or regionally sifnificant listed building. You would be well advised, however, to contact your local planning officer and ask for advice on what would be deemed acceptable rather than planning an installation and then asking them to approve it.

There are all sorts of options these days; the panels can be disguised to look like roof tiles, they can be made flush with the roof, they don't even have to be panels - they can be tube-like structures, that might be easier to disguise in your situation.

bossybritches · 26/03/2008 16:40

wow thanks Bobsdad-must admit we've never asked becasue they always bloody turn down EVERYTHING for our house!! (also Grade 2*)

However I shall look into it & your bio-fuel links thank you!!

aefondkiss · 30/03/2008 23:13

ballbaby - "I pay £360 a year with Good Energy for 4 bed house which i think is pretty good."

please tell me how you manage that?

we have a tiny 3 bed house, one electric storage heater, one oil heater (very rarely used), a solar panel for water heating and a wood burning stove for heating our living room, no heating in my bedroom or the hall, kitchen or bathroom.
we don't have a lot of gadgets, one computer, a freezer, fridge and cooker.

our last good electricity bill was £280, - I know prices vary with good energy, but I still find this shocking!

duchesse · 02/04/2008 09:43

We isntalled those vacuum solar tubes on our roof. We're in a house that thankfully is not listed.

Having the solar tubes fitted has enabled us to drop from 5 tanks of LPG a year (at £600 a pop at current prices) to 2 tanks a year (ie a saving of 3x£600 a year). We reckon we will pay them off in about 5-6 years at this rate. Whether others would pay them off as fast depends on what fuel they are using, amongst other factors. We have no complaints about ours- It's a just a shame we can't run the heating from them as well...

Some years we have managed to turn the boiler off entirely between April and October. If it's cold in the evenings in summer we use our wood burners. I'm still trying to find ways to reduce fuel consumption even further, and am thinking of having a back boiler fitted to one of the wood burners to power the upstairs radiators. One thing we do need to do is change the 15 yr old boiler, which wastes LPG as though it has shares in Calorgas...

Bobsdad · 07/04/2008 13:46

Duchesse, if you need to change your boiler, now really is a good time to consider dropping LPG altogether. Fossil fuels of all kinds are only going to get more expensive.

Have a serious think about biomass (wood pellets, or wood chips if you have a very large house with a sizeable outbuilding), or a geothermal heatpump, fed by ground loops if you have sufficent grounds or a borehole otherwise.

duchesse · 10/04/2008 13:09

Bobsdad- how much do you know about the pellets? They are a serious consideration (as would a wood boiler) but we've been led to believe that the hopper is quite sizeable and difficult to conceal. We don't want to rely on fossil fuels either! We have very efficient wood stoves to heat two rooms, but would be nice to be able to run the whole house from a wood/pellet boiler.

Monkeybird · 10/04/2008 13:20

bobsdad can you tell me more about groundsource heat pumps - you sound like you know...?

I know how they work (either looped under garden or drilled down with heat exchanger) but do you know how much it costs to get done? Sounds VV expensive to me...

bobsmum · 10/04/2008 17:37

Monkeybird and duchesse - will get dh on here tonight and he can get back to you

We've just had a wood pellet stove boiler installed before Xmas and we fill it most nights with a bag of compressed pellets. You can buy exactly the same pellets in ASda as cat litter but it's much pricier Our stove is in our study next to the sitting room. If we'd needed a big one then we could have had one with and integral hopper in a shed or something. Offices and other commercial buildings tend to go for chips with a hopper.

Ours is a Lucrezia Idro and is fab and rather nice looking too

bobsmum · 10/04/2008 17:40

This is ours

Bobsdad · 10/04/2008 21:53

Monkeybird, have a scan back through this thread - I made a huge post about wood pellets on Sat 23 Feb. But, to cut a long story short, whether you need a mahoosive pellet boiler with equally mahoosive hopper depends entirely on the heat requirement of your house. Can you tell me how many rooms there are in your house, especially bedrooms, whether it's detached, semi or terraced, and whether it is insulated to current standards? And does it have double glazing? The really big boilers are designed to go in a garage or an outbuilding. Ours on the other hand is not huge, sits on a hearth where there was once a Rayburn, has an integral hopper and in the depths of winter could go just about two days between fills - although our house is appallingly badly insulated due to it having thin wooden walls. If it didn't have to burn constantly for at least 12 hours of each day to maintain temperature, it would go 3 or 4 days between fills.

Duchesse, geothermal heatpumps do cost an arm and a leg to install. The point is, once they are in, provided your house is well-insulated, they cost next to nothing to run. The stats normally claim you get your money back in 10 years; in practice I hear tales of people getting it back in 5 or less. After that, you heat your house for next to nothing. However there are some catches:

The cost of the installation is related to the heat requirement of your house. Ours was not favourable due to our paper thin walls. We were looking at a unit capable of an 18kW output, which would cost (if I remember, very roughly) £8k to supply and install. The real killer however was the heat collectors. If you don't have sufficient land to run pipes horizontally under the surface, then you have to go straight down, which is expensive. You need to go about 100 metres per 6kW desired output (very roughly), at a cost of about £4,000 per 100 metres. We were looking at three 100 metre boreholes ... a potential total cost of £20,000, with a maximum grant from the Scottish householder renewables initiative of I think £3,000. We are planning to stay here a long time, but even so, that's a huge capital investment.

The rule of thumb for a successful heat pump is, have an extremely well insulated house, and if at all possible, use it to run underfloor heating rather than radiators, on the ground floor at least. A heatpump supplying 45 degrees c. to underfloor heating will consume 1kW of electricity for every 4kW it produces as heat. A heatpump supplying 60 degrees c. to radiators will produce 3kW of heat for each 1kW of electricity.

duchesse · 14/04/2008 11:57

That wood pellet boiler is quite yummy looking... Doesn't even look like a boiler, does it? I have booked an energy consultant guy to come and do a full energy report on our house and advise on the most cost/benefit effective technologies options for our house. Especially given that we have to replace our boiler and grim kitchen anyway.

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