new thread on opinions on Kosher/Halal non-stun slaughter.

[pasteldreams]

A new thread without the derailment that happened on the previous thread.

100% of Kosher meat and 42% of Halal is from non-stun slaughter, considering the majority of the UK is anti non-stun slaughter, can we realistically expect a ban on this practice in the near or long term future?

Many vegans believe that it is hypocritical to focus on non-stun slaughter as opposed to all slaughter, but I believe it's a basic minimum to expect a ban on non-stun slaughter when the majority of the UK expect it too.

@pasteldreams

A new thread without the derailment that happened on the previous thread.

100% of Kosher meat and 42% of Halal is from non-stun slaughter, considering the majority of the UK is anti non-stun slaughter, can we realistically expect a ban on this practice in the near or long term future?

Many vegans believe that it is hypocritical to focus on non-stun slaughter as opposed to all slaughter, but I believe it's a basic minimum to expect a ban on non-stun slaughter when the majority of the UK expect it too.

Two questions:

1. what is your "AIBU" question - why is this mainly a statement? What do you want people to discuss here?

2. why is this in this section of the forum? You clearly don't think you're being unreasonable in advocating for animals which aren't stunned before slaughter.

1. My AIBU question is : AIBU to think we can realistically expect a ban on this practice in the near or long term future?

2. See above.

@pasteldreams

1) My AIBU question is : AIBU to think we can realistically expect a ban on this practice in the near or long term future?

2. See above.

Think whatever you like, why would you be unreasonable?

It should definitely be banned. Surely people who want to eat it can import it if it is that important to them? Foie gras has been banned in the UK due to animal cruelty hasn't it, so it isn't impossible to ban these practices.

@sleepygnome

It should definitely be banned. Surely people who want to eat it can import it if it is that important to them? Foie gras has been banned in the UK due to animal cruelty hasn't it, so it isn't impossible to ban these practices.

Demand is huge and ever increasing from the looks of it.

I'm not vegetarian. I'm very much ok with animals being raised for food. But I think they should be stunned before slaughter and to find it abhorrent that religious views can override this.

I have no time for "beliefs" overriding welfare.

In the UK, Governments have resisted the EU requirement that meat be labelled as stunned or non-stunned based on the belief that this will stigmatise Muslims and Jews.

It seems there are no intentions to change this, with religious slaughter being excluded from being covered by the new commission set up in relation to the Animal Sentience Bill, and the environment secretary recently reiterating the stance that labeling meat as non stunned will stigmatise religious groups.

@sleepygnome

It should definitely be banned. Surely people who want to eat it can import it if it is that important to them? Foie gras has been banned in the UK due to animal cruelty hasn't it, so it isn't impossible to ban these practices.

Animal hunting should be banned first surely, nothing worse than shooting dead an animal for fun

I find this an issue that needs attention definitely.
Not just the humane side but also when it comes to the consumer.
I work in the food industry and there is an assumption that if you eat meat then halal isn't an issue.
Halal meat is sold and passed on to the consumer without their knowledge.

A chicken burger of nuggets in your local cafe is more than likely halal but you wouldn't know.
My primary aged child had a new school menu emailed out last term.
Brightly coloured, themed days, lots of veg and vegetarian options. All labelled with allergy info- looked wonderful for a school menu.
All the meat on the menu was halal apart from the pork sausages but it didn't say so.
I enquired out of interest as the old style menu did specify but this one didn't and that's how I found out.
Asked a staff member first and they didn't know and had to ask the caterer and get back to me.
In this cases it's 'all halal unless otherwise specified'.

I don't understand why clear labelling would stigmatise religious groups. Surely if it's important to them for religious reasons then they also need the labelling to know what they are buying?

I believe that very clear labelling about the origins and treatment of meat should be compulsory to allow consumers to make informed decisions. At the moment if you do eat meat but want higher animal welfare it is very opaque and hard to know if what you are buying is what you think it is (for eg. 'Outdoor bred' organic rspca etc - I assume means higher welfare but I still don't think these things are transparent enough)

I was interested and worried by the many posts of the other thread stating that there is little to no evidence that stunning actually renders the animal unconscious and that it frequently fails. This really needs urgent addressing. I don't know if that is part of the remit of this bill (I hadn't heard of it before the thread)

I agree I want to be an informed consumer.

www.theweek.co.uk/58447/halal-meat-what-does-it-involve-and-is-it-cruel-to-animals

This is a very good article and covers Kosher too. (Halal is focused on in the main because it makes up over 96% of non-stun consumption compared to just over 3% of Kosher, even though only 42% of Halal is non-stun while 100% of Kosher is non-stun)

According to one of Britain’s foremost vets, many non-Muslim Britons are inadvertently eating meat from animals slaughtered while they are still conscious.

Lord Trees, a former president of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, said that with the sharp rise in the number of sheep and poultry being killed in accordance with halal practice it was highly probable that some unstunned meat was entering the “standard” food chain, mainly in pies and ready meals.

“It’s very difficult to have accurate traceability when meat may go through the food chain and pass through several different people’s hands. Various parts of it will go in all sorts of directions into different food chains and different processing systems, often different countries,” he wrote in the journal Vet Record.

The Daily Mailhas cited new figures from the Foods Standards Agency which show the number of sheep slaughtered in Britain without being stunned had doubled in six years, to more than three million.

Raising the mater in the House of Lords, Lord Trees called for a change in the law to ensure all animals had to be stunned before they were killed, asking “Does the minister agree with me that in that aspect of animal welfare we are going backwards?

*sorry that should say 3% is Kosher - not 3% of Kosher.

I'm Jewish, don't keep kosher, and I don't believe for one moment that your pressing concern about this has anything to do with animal welfare.

I have been vegetarian but my health is better now I'm eating some meat. So I'm unlikely to switch back now.
I want clarity on the slaughter standards.

I was interested and worried by the many posts of the other thread stating that there is little to no evidence that stunning actually renders the animal unconscious and that it frequently fails. This really needs urgent addressing

Yes it is worrying. The new bill is apparently only for policymakers to consider when making new laws, and not to change existing ones.

Which seems a bit crap.

@HaplotypeK

I'm Jewish, don't keep kosher, and I don't believe for one moment that your pressing concern about this has anything to do with animal welfare.

Will be ignoring any attempts to derail this thread into accusation of a prejudicial agenda behind my OP.

Of course you will. I read your last thread too.

Posting on a thread isn't 'derailing', btw.

@TomRipley

I find this an issue that needs attention definitely. Not just the humane side but also when it comes to the consumer. I work in the food industry and there is an assumption that if you eat meat then halal isn't an issue. Halal meat is sold and passed on to the consumer without their knowledge.

A chicken burger of nuggets in your local cafe is more than likely halal but you wouldn't know.
My primary aged child had a new school menu emailed out last term.
Brightly coloured, themed days, lots of veg and vegetarian options. All labelled with allergy info- looked wonderful for a school menu.
All the meat on the menu was halal apart from the pork sausages but it didn't say so.
I enquired out of interest as the old style menu did specify but this one didn't and that's how I found out.
Asked a staff member first and they didn't know and had to ask the caterer and get back to me.
In this cases it's 'all halal unless otherwise specified'.

This seems very wrong. How many people are actually aware?

Is protecting a religious group from potential harsh judgment by others, really more important than the animal welfare?

Are the Government really saying that it's a good thing that most people don't know they're eating non-stun, because it protects religious groups?

@HaplotypeK

Of course you will. I read your last thread too.

Posting on a thread isn't 'derailing', btw.

The content of your post is 'derailing', not the fact that you posted.

The content of my post is a response to yours. Sorry that you don't like people pointing out how obvious your agenda is. Just like on the very long thread you posted about this yesterday.

I’m a meat eater and despite what vegans may say an animal lover. And I want my animals to be treated and killed humanely. No for me Kosher/Halal is not an option.

@HOkieCOkie

I’m a meat eater and despite what vegans may say an animal lover. And I want my animals to be treated and killed humanely. No for me Kosher/Halal is not an option.

I'm a vegan and would love to see all slaughter abolished, but I know that's not going to happen any time soon.

I believe that meat eaters have the right to know what method of slaughter was used for meat so they can make an informed choice.

I also think non stun should be banned considering the majority of the country think it should be.

I’m with @spanielstail:

I have no time for "beliefs" overriding welfare

Animal hunting should be banned first surely, nothing worse than shooting dead an animal for fun

I agree!