new thread on opinions on Kosher/Halal non-stun slaughter.

[pasteldreams]

A new thread without the derailment that happened on the previous thread.

100% of Kosher meat and 42% of Halal is from non-stun slaughter, considering the majority of the UK is anti non-stun slaughter, can we realistically expect a ban on this practice in the near or long term future?

Many vegans believe that it is hypocritical to focus on non-stun slaughter as opposed to all slaughter, but I believe it's a basic minimum to expect a ban on non-stun slaughter when the majority of the UK expect it too.

@pasteldreams I agree 💯 In London if a butcher is Halal it says so. I always ask as I only buy meat from the butcher. And my family own a butchers in the north so I also source my meat from them as I know exactly how their animals are cared for.

@opmamatrist in the countryside shooting is to keep populations under control. It’s not always just about taking a gun and shooting for the sake of it.

Before attacking kosher/halal meat, I would suggest people have a google about what stunning actually is and how effective it is .Also how animals are treated in British slaughter houses.

[quote HOkieCOkie]@opmamatrist in the countryside shooting is to keep populations under control. It’s not always just about taking a gun and shooting for the sake of it.[/quote]
Okay but why shoot them? There must be other less horrific ways of culling?

Btw I'm not okay with non-stunned meat, and I'm Muslim. We're not all the same.

I would love to know where you found the information that majority of people in the UK want non-stunned meat banned

Additionally, what good would it do to increase the governments encroachment into private life

Furthermore I also know for a fact this has everything to do with race and religion, to even suggest this shows you are bigted

*bigoted

@pinkgin85 it’s the most humane way as it’s quick.

I grew up in the countryside so it’s very normal to me but I completely understand it’s hard to see why ppl would want to shoot all these beautiful creatures.

There is an assumption here that stunning causes less pain to the animal. The purpose of kosher slaughtering is to cause the least pain and distress possible to the animal, by cutting it's throat in such a way as to cause the quickest death possible. It is not kosher if it is slaughtered in front of another animal, causing that animal distress. Stunning does not always work first time, therefore multiple stuns are attempted, causing pain. Electric shocks cause an animal pain. Why is it assumed that stunning is less painful and distressing than kosher/halal slaughter?
www.animalaid.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/slaughterreport.pdf

OP your questions have already been answered.

I find it unreasonable that you're starting a new thread because you didn't like the answers you got and then started throwing your dollies out of the pram which resulted in having the previous thread deleted.

[quote Thisismynewname123]There is an assumption here that stunning causes less pain to the animal. The purpose of kosher slaughtering is to cause the least pain and distress possible to the animal, by cutting it's throat in such a way as to cause the quickest death possible. It is not kosher if it is slaughtered in front of another animal, causing that animal distress. Stunning does not always work first time, therefore multiple stuns are attempted, causing pain. Electric shocks cause an animal pain. Why is it assumed that stunning is less painful and distressing than kosher/halal slaughter?
www.animalaid.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/slaughterreport.pdf[/quote]
I agree with this

Stunning is just to make the consumer feel better.

There's no such thing as humane slaughter.

The closest you'll get imho is a skilled hunter shooting an animal going about its business with no awareness of what's about to happen

It’s not only Muslims and Jews who eat halal/kosher btw, my friend is a Christian and only buys halal/kosher meat because (apparently) the old testament details how animals should be slaughtered/what you can eat (she doesn’t eat pork either) and halal/kosher slaughter follows those guidelines.

Agreed with @Thisismynewname123 there is nothing humane about stunning before slaughter but meat eaters (myself included, although eating a lot more vegetarian now) like to pretend that the animal didn’t suffer. The reality is that slaughter houses are not a place that humanity really exists, even if things like bolt guns do take away the ability to feel pain, they can often go wrong so the animals still suffer, plus the lead up to the “stunning” is often traumatic in itself.

I don’t think we will ever ban any non-stunning or even meat eating in general. I do think people should be more aware of where their meat comes from, and exactly how it is treated from birth to death.

YABU for starting yet another thread about this and expecting different results. YAABU to try to stymie other opinions on the religious side of your statement.

@MikeWozniaksGloriousTache

Agreed with *@Thisismynewname123* there is nothing humane about stunning before slaughter but meat eaters (myself included, although eating a lot more vegetarian now) like to pretend that the animal didn’t suffer. The reality is that slaughter houses are not a place that humanity really exists, even if things like bolt guns do take away the ability to feel pain, they can often go wrong so the animals still suffer, plus the lead up to the “stunning” is often traumatic in itself.

I don’t think we will ever ban any non-stunning or even meat eating in general. I do think people should be more aware of where their meat comes from, and exactly how it is treated from birth to death.

YABU for starting yet another thread about this and expecting different results. YAABU to try to stymie other opinions on the religious side of your statement.

Thank you for this very rational comment.

It's refreshing to see such honesty and awareness, I respect that wholeheartedly.

Is it actually the case that the animals are kept from witnessing the others' deaths before they themselves are killed, for kosher/halal? That is definitely preferable to standard operations.

I'm just wondering if this is actually what takes place, aren't standard slaughterhouses producing a lot of halal/kosher meat now? Do they also have someone reading the religious texts as the animals are killed, for each and every animal?

YABU for starting yet another thread about this and expecting different results. YAABU to try to stymie other opinions on the religious side of your statement.

1. The other thread got deleted because I lost control of my frustrations with two posters who refused to engage with the points I made to counter their attacks, and simply carried on attacking. I liked plenty of the answers I got. In fact, the majority on the thread.

2. I'm perfectly happy to discuss the religious aspect. I'm not going to engage with people who don't want to discuss the subject, but only want to accuse me of having an agenda for starting the thread.

@pasteldreams

Is it actually the case that the animals are kept from witnessing the others' deaths before they themselves are killed, for kosher/halal? That is definitely preferable to standard operations.

I'm just wondering if this is actually what takes place, aren't standard slaughterhouses producing a lot of halal/kosher meat now? Do they also have someone reading the religious texts as the animals are killed, for each and every animal?

Do you think maybe you need to do a bit more research then if you're not exactly sure what goes on? I mean that kindly, not trying to be snarky.

There's no such thing as humane slaughter.

I agree with this. But I do believe there are less horrendous ways than others.

@Itsafineday

Yes I do think so! And I will.

refused to engage with the points I made to counter their attacks

There's a difference between attacking and challenging.

I never personally tracked you, I challenged your assumptions than stunning was in any way preferable.

Apologies for typos and glad to see you'll be doing a bit more research.

I have.

@HaplotypeK

I'm Jewish, don't keep kosher, and I don't believe for one moment that your pressing concern about this has anything to do with animal welfare.

THIS.

OP do you have similar pressing concerns about the animal welfare of all that Australian meat that will be flooding our market due to the Australian trade deal Bojo just signed? Started a thread about that too have you?

Thank you Mods for moving this to Ethical Living section

@pasteldreams

YABU for starting yet another thread about this and expecting different results. YAABU to try to stymie other opinions on the religious side of your statement.

1. The other thread got deleted because I lost control of my frustrations with two posters who refused to engage with the points I made to counter their attacks, and simply carried on attacking. I liked plenty of the answers I got. In fact, the majority on the thread.

2. I'm perfectly happy to discuss the religious aspect. I'm not going to engage with people who don't want to discuss the subject, but only want to accuse me of having an agenda for starting the thread.

You posted it in "AIBU", didn't like the style of posts... and then came back for more?

Why are you trying to convince strangers on an internet message board?

So glad this thread got moved.

Would you rather be hit over the head or electrocuted before your throat was cut, or just have your throat cut?

Its a good thread OP, and yes I do want to know how an animal has been killed when I'm buying meat. It is one of the reasons I stopped buying meat from supermarkets and now only buy from my local butcher, I know the farms he gets his meat from. To be honest we eat very little meat in our house these days anyway.

I never eat the meat at the school I work in because I know its all halal. My colleagues think I'm veggie, to be fair most of the time I am.