Massage on play date

[LittleMy1]

My child, who is in reception, recently had a playdate at a school friend’s house. We have met the parents before and they both gave a good impression but we don’t know them very well.

Tonight my child mentioned she and her friend had given the friend’s dad a massage at the playdate and that he had given them
massages back. From what I understand it was just on the back and my child wasn’t upset / bothered when telling the story but it seems a strange thing to do with someone else’s child - especially if you don’t know them / their parents well.

I tried gently probing what happened before / after to get a better understanding of the context but didn’t get any real answers. I told her we don’t massage people outside our family (as sometimes she walks on my husband’s back as a ‘massage’) and that it’s important people respect each other’s personal space but think she took this as suggesting she shouldn’t have given him a massage rather than the other way around (I did clarify it’s up to adults to remember).

Would you probe further (I’m conscious about the risk of leading questions) and, if so, how? Or just avoid further playdates without my husband or I there?

For what it’s worth, the friend’s parents are DBS checked for their work.

DBS checked or not! Don't let her near him again! It screams dangerous and just the start of grooming!!! People in very high and trusted position are often the worse. Probe as much as you can! Bless you! I would be so worried xxxx

Fucking weirdo. No man I know would accept or invite a massage I know from a little kid or put his hands anywhere near her. DBS is no good if never been caught!

This is why I don't think it's a good idea to let such a young child go to another person's house when you don't know and trust them well.

It might be innocent, my DS in reception claimed to be the best at giving massage but it was just thumping me on the back in a chopping action; I was fully clothed and winced through these massages that he would offer up to other unsuspecting victims.

If it was clothes off with oil then yes, be very concerned, but it may have been genuine silly play.

Not ok. Based on what your DD has said, there's nothing to suggest anything seriously untoward happened, but you just don't touch other people's DC unless you have to e.g. to keep them safe or unless they touch you e.g. unsolicited hug.

DBS clearance means fuck all really. Sadly many predators actively choose careers with children/vulnerable adults. So long as they haven't been caught, they will have a clear DBS.

I can totally see a scenario where they do this in their family and it was led by their DD with the dad not wanting to leave your DC out. BUT he should have found a way to change the game/do something else.

I would probably avoid playdates/ have them at yours. And do the Pants are private thing with your DD.

It's a step too far. You don't massage other people's kids or get them to massage you. This makes me feel uncomfortable even though we're a massage/back rub kind of family. DH gives the girls shoulder massages, he never receives then. It's when we're watching TV. They also insist on their legs being tickled by whoever is nearest. They're very demanding teens.

Um yeah I would not be allowing your child around that man regardless. Jeffery Epstein 2.0

Is it possible that you child's friend often gives her dad a massage, and your child wanted to join in?

To confirm, it was definitely with clothes on and when I asked her to show where / how she massaged it was shoulders / upper back. Just seems weird to me but also don’t want to jump to conclusions

I think it could definitely be ill judged play with the kids. Like his own child started massaging (which is usually short of a beating with young kids) him and your dd joined in, then he did them quickly back on tops of the shoulders.
I often look after my friends son and can easily see this happening.

BUT, you just don't know! And anything that causes you discomfort needs looking at closer.

I don’t know. I asked her some questions around it but she went off on a tangent (not in a trying-to-avoid-the-topic kind of way but because she was completely uninterested). It’s entirely possible bit not sure how to ask without insinuating anything / asking leading questions

Nope I've worked with cases in the past where massages etc have been a way of the person getting their kick. Play or not you just don't do that especially with other peoples kids it's just weird.

That would be a huuuuge red flag for me. Either stay clear or message and say you have some concerns and can they clear up what has actually happened.

Oh for goodness sake it could just be a game with the kids. A squeezing of the shoulders made into a fun game by dad who's actually taking the time to get involved with his kid and their friend. My eldest used to play 'Spas' all the time and offered everyone who came to the house an 'easy press ' or a 'hard rub'. Plenty of sniggers all round but not an inappropriate moment in it. It's a dangerous game to live as nervously as this, you'll see danger in everything. And I'm a child protection and safeguarding professional.

@Anonyrodent

It might be innocent, my DS in reception claimed to be the best at giving massage but it was just thumping me on the back in a chopping action; I was fully clothed and winced through these massages that he would offer up to other unsuspecting victims.

If it was clothes off with oil then yes, be very concerned, but it may have been genuine silly play.

This

I think it’s great when dads actually play with kids. Jumping ti such conclusions every time the interact with them is not helping

The pizza massage game my kid has done lots of times, to people we didn’t even know in public workshops (before covid) and I’ve done it with lots of kids of various genders and sessions I’ve run. Maybe one of the kids learned it recently and instigated and it all happened with clothes on, in the open and everyone was comfortable

Get your facts straight

Bring it up in a no big deal way and give him the opportunity to recount the game from his perspective

Tell your kid exactly what you’re worried about instead of being coy and questioning round it
They cant look out for themselves if you don’t be honest about the dangers and prepare them to deal with them

@Anonyrodent

It might be innocent, my DS in reception claimed to be the best at giving massage but it was just thumping me on the back in a chopping action; I was fully clothed and winced through these massages that he would offer up to other unsuspecting victims.

If it was clothes off with oil then yes, be very concerned, but it may have been genuine silly play.

My children do this to me and a strangling shoulder rub, it's bordering on assault. I thank them nicely and I rub their shoulders very gently in return. It could be quite innocent if their friend assaulted massaged their Dad and your DS joined in. Quick shoulder rub back in return.

Oh for goodness sake it could just be a game with the kids.

Hopefully. I think some of us who have experienced abuse do tend to jump to worst case scenario

Playing massages with your child is grand. It's your child. But for another person to put their hands on someone else's child and massage them is just wrong. It's not playing It's morbid and anyone who says otherwise needs their heads examined.

@Chichimcgee

Oh for goodness sake it could just be a game with the kids.

Hopefully. I think some of us who have experienced abuse do tend to jump to worst case scenario

That includes me but that not what im advocating for

Gather facts.

If the person feels like they behaved appropriately then they wont have a problem discussing the game

If they seen shady about it or deny too quickly I would act appropriately on that

But people who happen to be men need ti be able ti interact with children without people assuming it’s ‘morbid’ that they would allow their hands to touch their back and shoulders

@Desmondo2021 that’s a rude and unhelpful response. I’m not saying anything untoward necessarily happened but am asking for advice on how to find out more without asking leading questions. Dismissing something solely on the basis it was reported by a child is not the behaviour I would expect of someone working in Child Protection.

[quote LittleMy1]@Desmondo2021 that’s a rude and unhelpful response. I’m not saying anything untoward necessarily happened but am asking for advice on how to find out more without asking leading questions. Dismissing something solely on the basis it was reported by a child is not the behaviour I would expect of someone working in Child Protection.[/quote]
Exactly. I'm a top brain surgeon you know! But only on mumsnet!

The problem is you've no way of knowing really, it may have been innocent and it may not. Remove any risk completely by not leaving your daughter unsupervised with them again then you know she won't be harmed, there's no reason for you to take risks here.

It could be innocent but it could also be a way or normalising touching which will escalate. Chances are it is as mentioned above, just a silly game that Dad got involved in but it could be sinister so not worth risking it by allowing her to be in that situation again.