Dad is scared to access Mam's money

[NorthEastNancy]

My parents have been married for 56 years but have separate money. House long paid off. Each have probably 100k savings. Not invested in don't think, just sat there

They've always gone halfers on holidays, big purchases, bills etc. Weird to me but that's what they've always done

Mam has dementia. Dad used her card to do the food shop every other week but otherwise he's scared to touch her money in case she has to go into a home and he gets judged for using her money.

He bought a car last week. They'd usually go half's but he is too worried to take her half out of the bank.

He has Lasting Power of Attorney. I do too

I think he's mad but he's certain he's not allowed to use her money. Any advice please?

The are married so legally (as far as I know) there is not his or her money when it comes to bank accounts. It’s belongs to both of them. Maybe some advice with the CAB would help him ?

He’s right. They really should have had a joint account and thought these things through while she was able.

Using her money to benefit him could be seen as financial abuse assuming her dementia means she is no longer able to make decisions.

Edited to add - using her money to buy her food should be fine. But the car could well be viewed suspiciously.

Bloody doesn’t. My savings do NOT belong to my dh and if he took any of them that would be theft.

I've tried so many times to get them to get a joint account!

The thing is though - the car is "his" as he's the driver but he drives her everywhere so it's theirs really. Same with the 10 previous cars they've had

If he uses the car to benefit DM and she would normally have paid half, which historic bank statements could prove, it would be fine

The car benefits both of them. It's a family asset.
I'm fairly sure ALL Bank accounts would be considered for her care regardless of who's name they are in.

If you’re in England / Wales, suggest that he calls OPG for advice. He needs to be mindful of conflict of interest but equally he shouldn’t be subsidising your mum just because he’s too cautious of using her money on things that she would previously have contributed to.
The best thing to do is keep clear records. E.g. if he is going to take £10k as contribution for a car, keep a record of that decision including paperwork showing the total price of the car.
this will help if the local authority (e.g. when assessing contribution to care costs) does a financial audit.

Oh OP I feel for you. and your poor dad. I would second going to CAB for advice (with your dad). Also Dementia UK were really helpful to dad when mum was ill. I would fully imagine that your dad would be fine to access your mum's money for anything at she would normally have paid for, because that would be his doing it on her behalf, for her benefit. My parents had a joint account and each had a separate account too and I'm sure Dad would take money out of her account too. Sorry Dementia is so awful.

Thanks everyone

He's horribly private so getting him to speak to anyone is hard. I had o idea they had this money. He was a factory worker, she was a carer. Theyve scrimped all their lives and i thought we were skint growing up

I'm furious that they've denied themselves luxuries and now they can't enjoy their savings (doctors have said she shouldn't go on holiday. I think differently but that's another story)

A social care financial assessment for care costs in our LA would count separately owned accounts as belonging solely to the person named on the account, and they’d consider half of joint accounts. As he has POA usual expenditure shouldn’t be seen as deprivation of assets and if money has always come from the individuals account to cover living expenses I would continue that. A contribution to the car is reasonable if she benefits from it.

This is how the Office of the Public Guardian view things too. He is entitled to take a 50% contribution to all living and household bills from Mam's account. If the car is being used for Mam's benefit too, there's no concern with her contributing to its cost.

This is great information

He likes to think he k ow what's what but benefits from facts being spelled out so I've messaged him tonight with the info you've all given me

I wish I could change their attitude to money but I can't. They will be forever taking a flask on drives and grabbing the cheapest McDonalds order rather than having nice experiences 😪

And yet if you were to divorce they would be considered joint monies.

That only comes into play on divorce, when still alive and married, you can have your own money. Thank god!

Yes, but only then. It doesn't seep into other circumstances

Agree with @Whereandwhen and @NotsandwichesIt took years for our family to start using mums funds, quite legitimately, as it felt wrong. Your mam is benefitting from the car and it sounds like she would have contributed anyway if she had capacity. That pattern should continue as with all bills, expenses and gifts etc. They aren’t expected to scrimp to preserve future care home funds either.

He needs to speak to mums bank with a view to registering the lpa so he can access her money fornally for the things she needs.

Ive just rang him. He's going down to the bank tomorrow with the LPA.

I'll keep working on him to stop scrimping but I'm doubtful he will

OP I'm glad they have you. You sound lovely.

Thank you - i don't actually have the easiest relationship history with my Mam. She didn't speak to me for 3 years (long story - narc behaviour which i finally called out after she got historical when my wedding wasn't what she'd imagined. It was gorgeous!)

She now doesn't remember she wasn't speaking to me. All very messy really.

Pleased to hear that your DF will register the LPA. That is what it is there for.

If your DM has dementia be aware of how much care homes cost if you need dementia care too. £100,000 would only cover a couple of years, if that.

@NorthEastNancy If you both are attorneys, you both need to register it with the bank. You totally do it on line and register for on line banking. You are joint attorneys so presumably both named on the document? Where else does she have money? Are there any other savings you need to access? Or is everything at the bank? Where do pensions go?

It’s obviously not the best way to conduct joint finances but you both need access to her money and spend it on her share. Did she use the family car or never go in it? A contribution seems reasonable if she goes in it! If dad kept it just for him, what then? Bizarre!

To be honest, your dad should not stint on using your mum's money for anything that benefits her. She should be paying half the household / food bills, as long as she's living there, anything that's just for her like clothes or any medical / adaptations / anything associated with her care should be paid from her account. These are all reasonable expenses for someone being cared for at home.

TBH 100K is just over 1 year of nursing home fees. It's a drop in the ocean of social care spending. IMHO your dad should absolutely use your mums savings to give her the best life he can while she's still at home - and he should not be spending his money to do this.

In a way your parents are ahead of the game - most couples go through life with joint accounts then have to split them when they reach this stage. PIL also changed from being joint tenants to tenants in common, and changed their wills to leave their half of the house to DH and SIL - just in the nick of time before MIL completely lost capacity to agree to this.

Yes but we’re not divorcing, and neither are OP’s parents. So the divorce position is irrelevant.

Ignore me my comment was incorrect. Surprising to me!