How much are people willing to sacrifice with care for the elderly?

[mids2019]

We are probably in a situation familiar with a lot of people here with frail parent (fil) as well as teenage children and jobs.

the question is how far do you go to support the elderly parent given traditionalism have to make large sacrifices at home? Do people get to a stage of costing a very crisp immobile parent so often that family life becomes increasingly strained but from an emotional level feel little choice? Do people give up employment to look after the elderly and is there a societal expectation that children especially women should become essentially full time carers?

How do you go about making decisions about how to organise your lives with change?

My parents made it clear at an early stage that they were leaving 3/4 of their estate to my sister (who had given them grandchildren) so that was my cue to keep my distance. As the solo child free daughter I was not going to be manipulated into being a carer. That was a consideration when I decided to move to another city to go to uni. It was also a consideration when I took on an EU research job which involved regular European travel. My sister had been the golden princess when we were kids so she became the golden carer when we were older.

Pretty much zero bar the odd visit or me making Sunday dinner for the whole family etc. I have 2 pre-schoolers, a full time job and parents who live hours a way. As the only daughter with 2 brothers then already my mum tries to get me to do the boring or hard tasks that she or my brothers can't or won't do -l push back and decline. Life is busy e.g. yesterday l worked 8am to 6pm so by the time you factor in making dinner, showers, bedtime etc then l often only get 30 minutes a day for myself. Throwing in care of the elderly (there are 2 sets of parents and 3 aunts who are single in the mix) would mean zero time to myself and time being taken from my children or my earning potential being impacted. I've told my mother l have little time to myself and life is busy so l can't / won't take on more but she just won't take it on board. It's not a cognitive issue, it just doesn't suit her narrative. My first responsibility and priority are my children.

I also have my own mental health and physical issues. No medical professional has told me to overdo it and burn myself out for someone else. The advice is very much pace yourself. Even if they didn't then l won't be doing 8pm dashes up the motorway after a 10 hour day at work.

It's fine if my husband wants his parents to move in with us. But he or will move out of the marital home and will divorce as lm not willing to do that. Our stairs are quite steep and our garden is on a few levels so it's probably him moving out!

Nothing.

My parents made it very clear throughout my childhood that I was an inconvenience.

They divorced when I was 5 and prioritized their own love lives, meaning that I was subjected to emotional and physical abuse and witnessed domestic violence.

They have provided very little support to me since having my own children.

They made their beds....

As far as my in laws are concerned, not my circus, not my monkeys. That's for DH and his sister to sort out.

It wasn't a choice.

As I pointed out, at first it was just the odd thing and I didn't mind. The point when I went part time wasn't because I chose to care for my Mum, it was because I was caring for Mum anyway and trying to do it and work full time was killing me. Going part time was to save my mental health not because I chose to look after Mum. By the time I found I was looking after her, I took steps to get carers in, but they don't do everything - someone still has to book them, pay them, pay other bills etc. Not to mention all the appointments that you can't leave to carers. Mum has dementia and the carers, lovely as they mostly are, mostly struggle with English and would never be able to or should be expected to deal with complicated appointments.

My sister could and should have helped and supported. Even bothering to visit her Mother sometimes would be nice. Her choice was easy because I lived closer. She would have to had to step up and do things -even arranging carers- if I wasn't around.

I have been part time for a number of years, mainly to spend time with my increasingly frail mum. I am not giving up work to care full time, and even this level of support is hard. Dementia is cruel and I don’t judge anyone for only being involved to the extent they can manage without burning themselves out.

My dm was adamant that she didn't need or want help, and she lived an hour away. She refused to move and did not have dementia so we couldn't insist.

We gradually introduced help in the form of someone who came in to deal with a fallen tree, and stayed as a weekly gardener. Then a cleaner who started out cleaning outside windows and took over hoovering, kitchens and bathrooms.

Then Farm Foods deliveries, a home hair dresser, an account with the local taxi firm and an alarm call service. We managed to keep her out of a home and relatively independent, which was what she wanted. Then she went into hospital for a minor procedure and died in her sleep.

A large part of the issue is who pays for the cleaners, gardeners etc. My DPs have much more savings than I will ever have because of excellent pensions and being able to work until 60 without having to care for their DPs. I could have put in the appropriate level of support much earlier if they had been prepared to sign it off, but the mental leap of me losing many many thousands in earnings and pension contributions versus them paying £40 an hour for additional care and support was beyond their limited reasoning, so I could only add it in at the rate they were prepared to tolerate it.

No, I won’t be doing hands on care. Managing finances and paying care home bills at a distance is fine.

I grew up in a multi-generational
household where everything was geared to the needs of the elderly person, and there is no way I am doing the same
thing to my own children.

We need to have difficult conversations about why the NHS is hellbent on over-treating all these people whose quality of life is non-existent and who keep being shipped into hospital and pumped full of antibiotics.

My cousin and her daughter worked themselves to the bone caring for my uncle. My cousin ended up dying before he did. Her daughter felt awful as she said she was so busy running round after my uncle she didn't notice her mum's symptoms until it was too late. (Heart problems) Very sad and a warning not to be too selfless

Yes, there was another poster on this forum who ended up having a heart attack and admitted to the same hospital her elderly mother was already in.

This had to come down to personal choice and circumstance. No one else can answer this. What do your parents want/ need? What do you/ partner want/ need? Wendy is your relationship with them like? What can you afford? Do you have the skills/ patience needed without ruining your relationship?
The important thing is to be clear with them on your boundaries early on so that they can also plan. I work in a hospital and we are regularly told by patients that their family will support and when we speak to family they ask us to tell their parents that they cannot do it any longer.

Agreed. Whilst ironically the NHS are under treating the younger generation e.g. CAMHS, neurodiversity services etc. Like a lot of things these days it’s the older generation sucking up the resources and they aren’t being fairly shared around

I was chatting to a friend of mine recently about this. My friends mother is now in her 80's.

For years her mother has been selfish with her time and mean with her money. My friend has had years of doing little jobs and sorting out stuff for her.
She expects my friend to get her better deals on her various bills.

At one stage my friend was dealing with several difficult things. She told her mother what was happening then. Her mother's attitude was well you can sort it out.

Meanwhile nothing was to much trouble for her mother's golden children for years.

When her mother needed extra help her golden children did very little.

After this my friend had enough of her mother and her poor behaviour. She stopped doing little jobs. She said no her mother so she had to sort out or make other plans.

My friend has decided to change jobs next year for both financial reasons and so she won't be as available for care. She knows that her mother won't be happy over this because she expects my friend to do the majority of care if or when she requires this.
Her mother has refused to listen to any advice or put proper plans in place for this stage of her life. My friend has decided for her own physical and mental health to step back and the golden children can step up and sort things out as they happen.

My friend has seen people dealing with elderly relatives and they health declining for years. The constant in and out of hospital, refusing to go to the doctor's, refusing to stay in hospital and wanting to stay at home. Meanwhile there adult kids have jobs, there own kid's and may not always be near the parents home.
My friend has seen the selfishness develope with elderly people in that it all about them and what they want. I know a lady who was told not to give up her then job to become a full time carer for elderly parents because now she has a better job that came after both parents died.

Nothing.

Parents were great and that, and i did stuff when specifically asked, but with a full time+ job and 2 kids, my focus tended to be: job, kids, me, dh,parents.

I am not a natural carer and i also worked bloody hard for the life i had. I don't expect my kids to help me. I want out at the first sign of dementia or infirmity. I've seen mental and physical deterioration in elderly family. I choose neither.

I can’t care for my DPs. I don’t live in the same country of them. So I can’t.
Currently trying to work out what’s reasonable about visiting and boundaries.
I think long term I could go visit M-F once every 6-8 weeks. And this isn’t caring.
I have a sister who lives nearby. I worry she will do too much.
Time will tell I guess.

I know this isn’t at all useful, it I just wanted to say that I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I hope you are able to accept/get/pay for more help when you want it. It takes a huge toll on you and I’m sure your DH would want the best for you if he could express this.

We facilitated MIL prompt move into residential care after FIL died. She couldn’t manage at home and had over £1m in assets. No better use of her money at this point. DH and SIL were unwilling and unable to become her ‘carer’ or her runaround. We are just coming up retirement age and plan to travel. MIL, who gave up work in her 20’s has had her chance to do that (and didn’t/they chose to live frugally). So now it’s our turn.
I hope I’m unselfish enough to do the same with myself if the time comes, buy in care and let my busy adult DC with jobs and families of their own live their lives free of the indefinite burden.
The wants of someone at the end of life don’t trump those of others in the prime of theirs.

One thing I notice, OP, is that you say 'FIL'- are you the wife expected to care for your FIL? Often women are expected to step forward as unpaid carers, even for relatives that are not their own. Men rarely do. I would care with my own hands for only one family member, the rest will have to have care organized by others, I have a lot of experience arranging care/cleaners/gardeners/filling in the forms so will be doing that.

I’m sure a lot of older people would have much better relationships with their children if they didn’t expect them to care for them. Surely your children regularly visiting you in a home and having a good relationship with them and every interaction being positive is better than the gradual decline into resentment that almost every child/carer feels when they become a carer to an elderly person?

Thankfully my parents are of the opinion that they didn’t have us for us to spend our prime years being their carers and have told us that we are not to care for them. Of course this does not mean being uncaring - we will make sure they are comfortable and happy and receive the best care there is - fortunately they will be able to afford this as well. For now they are late 70s/early 80s and still in excellent health. My Dad still goes skiing!

My DP’s mother I fear will be the opposite.

My parents are early 70s, MiL early 80s. None of them have any care whatsoever (not even cleaners, gardeners etc) and they all hate the thought of it. But when the time comes we will not be doing it.
My parents met very young and have had their whole lives together. They have done their share of caring (my mother more than my father), which they freely admit was awful, but always prioritised each other, even over us kids.
My FiL died a decade ago but they also met very young, had an amazingly full life together and had no caring responsibilities. Again, my MiL wasn’t the most dedicated mother.
All parents are well off, with good pensions. We will therefore not be funding any form of care.
My partner and I met later in life. Both still working full time and have many plans for our future together. No way are our parents moving in with us, ever. If they aren’t safe in their own homes, they won’t be any safer in ours, and our lives are not going to be lived as 24/7 carers.
My parents find it amazing that children of friends/relatives don’t accompany their parents to hospital appointments or visit every week. I have to gently remind them that they work full-time (like we do), that they can’t just take time off all the time, that their annual leave and weekends are precious (as are ours).
Luckily my partner and I are on the same page entirely when it come to the care of our parents. I want to remain their daughter, not their carer. They don’t like it, it might not be a popular opinion, but our lives really did begin again at 40 and we want to enjoy it while we can.

@Ritaskitchen The truth is your sister will do everything and you will do next to nothing. I had 2 sisters who decided living 3 and 4 hours away was far enough to do absolutely nothing! They still got the same as me in the will and one didn’t even visit for 6 years! Parents can be very odd about who they actually value. They expect the nearest to step up and others get a free pass.

I live a 1 hour train trip then a plane journey away, or a plane ride and longish train journey away.
I can’t change this. I live where I live.Have done for many years. My DC and husband live here with me.
But my parents can accept help to take the pressure off my sister. So far they seem reluctant to do so.
We can only have our own boundaries/ability to help.
Since January I think I’ve been visiting on average twice a month. But this isn’t sustainable. Neither would 1 parent accept this. The other one would have me to everything possible.
I can do things in person, and do. I am doing things remotely.
It is what it is.

I agree with this.

I am not sacrificing my life for my parents.

My life is more important than my parents' lives.

How did you find the live in carer if you don’t mind me asking?

We were using a local care company for daily visits. They also provide live in carers, so when we said we needed one they sourced someone.