Parents (80 this year) have no wills or LPA in place

[Missingducks]

My parents are 80 this year - relatively fit and active and comfortably off. Today they told me they don't have wills or LPA organised. Do they think they are immortal or that when they die / need help someone else will sort it by magic? I am hopping mad. And told them they are ridiculous to hide their heads in the sand and that we have had ours since age 40 and review every 8 or so years . Growl.

I'd ask them if they'd be happy with a stranger making decisions about their health and finances if they lose capacity?
Or that perhaps estranged family members could end up with part of their estate if not explicitly not stated?

To an extent they just think it’s not my problem when I’ve gone

So, they assume a quick death?
The stats would say multiple hospital admissions then a home is more likely 🤷‍♀️

Having ground through most of the admin for two straightforward estates with wills in recent years, and as I understand that doing an estate where someone has died intestate is even worse - shame on them. It is doable, apparently, and there may not be much difference in the outcome depending on their wishes. But I’m frankly disgusted with people who want to give their relatives a hard time for the sake of an hour and what can be quite a small fee.

What was their response?

To be honest I was very surprised to find out that my normally seeming well organised Anute and Uncle hadn't updated their wills since before 1972. Bearing in mind a number of relatives have died and been born since then. They are also both in their early 80's, I'm glad they have now sorted it all out as I believe the orginal benefactors are dead so goodness knows what would have happened if they hadn't of updated it.

Nice of them to just pass the buck to the poor sods left behind. I presume they're not decluttering either??

Also, without POAs, who will pay their fees for carers/care homes etc if they're not capable of organising their finances/banking anymore?

We had it with MIL - she refused to do a POA because she didn't want to pay for it, but when she went downhill rapidly due to dementia, we couldn't access her bank accounts, not even to pay for normal utility bills and certainly not to pay for carers. She'd never organised online banking and still wrote cheques to pay bills etc. She lost the ability to even sign signs written by us. When her bank "froze" her account for suspicious activity (presumably her bad writing) we couldn't get it unfrozen because she couldn't ring the bank, couldn't talk to them if we rang, and hadn't a clue what she was done or where she was if we took her to the bank in person. It was an absolute nightmare because with the extra bank security/safeguarding in place today, they just froze everything and kept repeating that we needed a POA - Doh we know that and it's too late!!

My mum had this issue with her mother, who felt that if she hadn’t got dementia by age 90, she never would. Blithely ignoring the fact there’s no evidence for that at all, and also the fact that there are many other reasons you might need an LPA (stroke etc). My mum was banging her head against the wall. I appreciate my grandma just didn’t want to think about it, but her refusal to do anything other than wave it off with a “oh it’ll be fine, stop fussing” caused all sorts of problems.

We sorted financial poa last month as dad is not far off 80. Haven’t done medical but to be honest that’s not as important because their wishes are to trust the drs

I was lucky and told my parents I wouldn’t do anything unless they sorted out LPA for me. They needed to do wills and I told them they could leave money to whomever they liked but the wills were important. I didn’t want to see the wills but they wanted me to have copies.

I honestly do think some people just put their heads in the sand or just dismiss everything as being sorted out by xxx when the time comes. They are also bloody thick if they think you can just take over the finances without them having arranged anything.

It’s incredibly selfish thing to do as well

My parents are a similar age and won’t do a POA which is driving me nuts. Ironically my Mum has POA for two of friends who are childless, so she knows exactly how important it is.

On the bright side FIL died without a Will (because at 78 with a heart condition he thought he had more time!) but it actually wasn’t that hard to sort out. We thought it would be a lot worse.

My parents had made a will but never had POA. When my DM died my DF updated his will and only at the suggestion of the solicitor did he agree to POA. Sometimes it takes someone else to mention it. He brushed it off when I mentioned it previously. Thankfully it’s all in place now should it be needed. Is it possible someone else could have a conversation with them? Easier said than done I know.

That is a good point. Often a third party like a GP or a solicitor can talk some sense into our elderly parents and suddenly it happens. My FIL thinks if a Doctor says something it must be true. Now he is elderly he thinks maybe they aren’t (they tell him to stop smoking, drinking, driving etc).

Some good ideas here to tell them we won't be able to help them without PoA and someone else will have to decide for them / pay for them. Happily my brother is also cross (it was his wife who told me they don't have things sorted - no idea how that cropped up). Also cross that when they moved house last year (downsized and decluttered) we missed an opportunity ...
I have a solicitor friend, might ask her to write me a paragraph about why it's important. Because obviously I am being very mean (in their eyes) even talking about it. Growl.

It’s entirely their choice - the vast majority of people, young or old, don’t have wills or LPAs in place.

Wills are less important than LPA. Tell them that if they are unable to make decisions due to sickness, you will be able to do very little to help them. Ask them to do lpa for your peace of mind . Might work!

At least they have downsized and declutterrd. Don't get angry with them, it's their choice, but be clear that lpa is a godsend'just in case' anything goes wrong.'

I’m sure you’ve seen the other thread about decluttering. The key takeaway is that you are cruel if you expect your elderly parents to do anything to make it easier for you, you are not allowed to organise anything because that will mean you want them dead, and if you dare bring it up, they should disinherit you. Oh and an auction house can sort everything.

I wonder if wills were regarded as a 'rich person' thing historically?
Have our parents not associated the fact that their houses are now worth hundreds of thousands of pounds even though they paid buttons for them in the 70/80s. ( And this make them rich!)

The other option is... Dying Interstate isn't actually that complicated? My dad did and everything was passed to my mum. She filled out the forms and it took about 2 weeks for probate to come back.

Wills I can to an extent understand especially if family dynamics means it will be quite straightforward but not having LPA I would be very concerned about. The amount of patients I’ve met in hospital who are left in limbo waiting for it to be sorted out is horrific. People who would be far, far better off in a different setting but are in hospital for months whilst it gets sorted is incredibly sad imo.

Missing. Please ignore people who say its up to them what paperwork they do or dont do! The consequences will be YOURS if they dont. Of course you could walk away, state that you told them to do LPA's etc but they will quite honestly look at you with puzzlement and forgotton they had an issue with it.

IT ALL COMES BACK TO YOU TO SORT OUT!

I was lucky because I didnt get into long discussions about whether to do or not. Save yourself. Do NOT have long winded discussions which dont go anywhere and go round in circles.

Back away somewhat whilst they are 'thinking' about it. So if you visit twice a week say you will only be coming once a week.

If you think its bad now just wait until you get chucked some issue that needs unpicking with paperwork going back years and a parent that can or cannot recall what they did.

Depending on what they are like I would lighly touch on what you did to resolve something but do not get into endless conversations. Mum quite liked knowing something had been dealt with. What she really loved once her house had been sold is giving generous Xmas presents to the family. Truly loved it. From spending very little because it was all too confusing she was now giving presents worth £500.

I have a friend who looks after her parents accounts. They dont have LPA. They dont do direct debits or Standing Orders. Everything done cash or by cheque.

I will be frank here and say I wouldnt be doing all the running around that that entails.

Who did you think had the LPA? (Someone can't have it without their knowledge - you have to agree to it and sign a form. Or two forms - one for health and one for finance).

Do you know if they hold their house as joint tenants or tenants in common? Because if it's the latter, that can save at least half of it from going on care home fees.

If the family set-up is simple (one marriage, no other kids on either side), intestacy rules will make all that reasonably straightforward. But not having LPA can turn into an absolute nightmare. If you've got any leverage at all with them, use it, and insist.

I wrote my first will at 18. There’s an advantage to growing up being force fed Victorian novels where somebody is always breathing their last at any age - I don’t associate wills with old age, to me it's ‘little Beth’ coughing her consumptive way to leaving her copy of the Bible to the deserving poor or whatever.

My mum was very reluctant to put a LPA in place, so me and my husband did the process (in our 50s) to model to how how important we felt it was. She witnessed lots of conversations between us and our two grown up children, discussing the process and how vital we considered it.