Care homes make me think people never die

[rockrollerpud]

Recently I was given the news that someone I know died suddenly. Classic late seventies, living life totally normally, seemingly slim, fit and healthy, then gone within 24 hours from heart attack. This was surreal to me. And here is why.

I visit a relative in a care home weekly. And for want of better words, I’ve been visiting so long that I honestly feel like some people can’t die. Or at least, their bodies are just designed to trundle on like a diesel engine car with 200,000 miles on the clock.

Most of them are 80-100 years old. Many sit there all day asleep with their mouths open. Many are overweight, have multiple health conditions, yet they just don’t ever change from that. They go on for years/decades.

I have to say, there are far more women than men in the care home.

Quite regularly, I’ll read on here, that someone struggled at home but then went in a care home and only lasted 1-2 years. Yet I see the majority seem to live forever in the care homes.

Before I knew what I know now about elderly disease and decline, I’d always assumed that by the time I got to a care home, I’d be so spent, I’d only last a few years too. But now it’s freaking me out that I, like many others, could spend 15% of my life in one.

Anyone else a long term visitor to a care home and be shocked at this?

It’s all a society issue , before elderly would be kept at home , active and able bodied , because the norm would be their children would all help . As society changed many don’t live closer to parents and grandparents, many need to work until later , many can’t be bothered , many cannot afford to help , often there is only 1 child so no siblings to help . Society is , for lack of better word , broken . We all struggle to an extend with work and daily life , those of us who have more than 1 or 2 kids struggle even more , most of my friends see their older parents as a burden , not many would help them or move them in with them as a example .

My Dad is in Year 5 of ‘living’ in a care home with Altzheimers. Most of the time I just rage internally. He’s lost mobility, speaks but can’t be understood, is clearly terrified but can’t say what about, falls often and has to wear hip protectors and head protection. He wears a nappy, and can’t tell us if he’s in pain or not. He used to be a university lecturer in his real life. While it’s a cruel disease it’s also a cruel, unsophisticated system. Why can’t we have a more nuanced conversation about life and death?

Totally with you on that

I am so sorry to hear about your poor dad. I think cases like this demonstrate the absolute necessity for euthanasia. Our society is pretty barbaric.

It didn't used to be like this.

Both my parents wrote letters to the family doctor, got them stamped by a solicitor to confirm sound mind, and filed them for future. Dad insisted no treatment once in a home and he lasted 7 weeks (died peacefully from pneumonia) and Mum decided against chemo and was gone within 3 months. Both mid 70s, which seems young, but both swinging from chandeliers 6 months before they died, fiercely independent, loving life.

I know it's awful to see. My Mil is 87, and is completely immobile and has no quality of life. She has multiple carer visits a day, and her whole existence is sitting in her chair all day, watching tv, having food brought to her, having her nappy changed, put to bed in the evening.

I won't be the same burden to my children.
Ive lost weight, started taking care of my health in general and exercising every day.

There was an interesting article in the Guardian recently about how we are prolonging lives due to ‘breakthroughs’ in science that basically can lead to what you’ve described: elderly people spending all day watching TV in care homes, listless, multiple health issues, many of them probably wishing someone would put them out of their misery. But medication is just keeping them ticking along when previous generations would have died from some of the diseases our elderly spend years and years ‘living’ with.

There is a cynical part of me that thinks there is money to be made in prolonging elderly people’s suffering though.

@Vcal2017 Im so sorry to read that. Nobody deserves to go through that.

My mother and MIL lived into their 90s and they both lived 10 years too long. MIL had Parkinsons and her decline was hideous, but she kept on going - crying every day, saying she'd had enough. My mother had lots of health issues, diabetes, atrial fibrillation, thyroid issues, osteoporosis etc etc and was bedbound in a care home. She used to say "Why me, why have I lived so long? I should have gone years ago." and I used to think to myself "Well if you didn't take the cocktail of drugs you have every day, and if you hadn't had a pacemaker fitted when you were already struggling healthwise, then you would have gone years ago."

I listened to an interview with Ben Elton about his life, and he said the biggest mistake he ever made was encouraging his 80+ year old father to have life saving heart surgery, as the remaining years of his life were a misery. In past times his heart issue would have meant the end, but modern medicine just patches everyone up and keeps them going in an ever worsening state of decrepitude.

I sincerely hope assisted dying is readily available when I have lost all enjoyment for life.

@OldJohn that’s what my friend and his wife agreed, but when it got to the point where even two live in carers weren’t enough to deal with him, he had to be transferred to a nursing home.

This is a very common scenario.

I think that people in care homes should be allowed to wander about, in the garden etc But as it stands if a care home has outbreaks of infectious illnesses, has patients falling and getting g serious fractures they are considered bad care homes. Uncaring.

I think we should be able to write a wish list for the care homes eg I wish to spend sunny afternoons in the garden.i do not want antibiotics if I have Alzheimer’s.

The residents are wrapped in cotton wool, mushy food, no going far on their own so the fractures or falls which would hasten their end doesn’t happen.

@OrdinaryGirl same - my mum is late 70's and has basically taken to a chair and decided she will see out her days sedentary.

After a fall she got some physio sessions and free pilates for 3 months - she did it all and then just gave up. I really cannot understand why she has chosen this. She will not listen at all.

My nanna lived for 8 years in a nursing home. It was brutal and no life. She just couldn’t/wouldn’t go. When she finally did go we were all relieved. Far better to just die one day in your 80s.

It always fascinates me that we are “allowed” to choose when life begins as we can use contraception and sometimes even a date of birth, but we can’t choose when to end life, even when the person is suffering. Animals are not allowed to suffer, but humans are.
Obviously there would need to be strict restrictions on any of it, but having seen people at the end of life I think knowing you had a choice even if you may not choose to use it would be a comfort.

Your observations are not reflective of the stats. The average time in a care home is 2 years. So your original thinking that its a relatively brief period prior to the end of life is the correct one. The home you visit must be sonething of an anomaly if it has multiple highly incapacitated very long term residents.

My aunt has a DNA in place and a stated desire not to go to hospital but she never quite gets to that stage. She recently had a chest infection and 111 sent paramedics who sorted antibiotics for her. Three young men in uniform brightened her day though😆. Doesn’t know who we are but was happy to see them.

My DM’s excellent care home, had a very nice level garden, with handrails everywhere, which sufficiently mobile residents were free to use. There was also an enclosed ‘sun trap’ outside space, where those who wanted to could sit out on warm enough days.

Having said that, my formerly keen gardener DM never showed the slightest sign of wanting to be out of doors - a feature of dementia, I suppose.

My relative lived 8yrs in her care home. There were about 25 residents, and I’d estimate about 10 of them were there when she moved in and when she ‘moved out’. Statistics can be manipulated to say what ever you want, there are two camps with this - those that move in when they’re very ill and don't last long and the others live there for years on end, thats why the average is 2yrs. Some are there only days/weeks versus years and years.

I hope I drop dead in my own home, having seen extreme old age up close, I can’t see much to recommend it!

Really interesting and sad and true, OP. We've recently suffered a very sudden and shocking bereavement, but what gives me massive comfort is this person was spared a slow and wretched decline. Worse for us to have them die this eay, far better for them. What worries me now is how the surviving spouse (eats a terrible diet but insists cake is "good for you", does no meaningful exercise) is going to cope and how things will pan out for them. I was already doing 15 mins of weights a day and various other things, am going in much harder now!

I have a slightly different take on it. My late DM lived with Alzheimers for around 10 years before she died, and luckily for most of that time was in a good care home.
She was happy there, well fed and otherwise healthy, sociable and surrounded by good people.
She died after a short bout of pneumonia just before her 90th birthday.
It was worse for the family, especially at first when she began to forget us and before she went into the home. But once in there she forgot her previous life when she was anxious and scared at home.
She was always so pleased to see us and she’d say to me ‘We’ve been friends for a long time, haven’t we?’
Yes, Mum, I would reply.

I'm 100% for assisted dying. My DM was diagnosed with AML, aggressive form of leukemia. After 3 months of brutal chemotherapy they sent mum home and put her on end of life care taking12 different tablets a day including vitamins and chemo tablets. After 2 weeks of being bed bound she told us she'd stopped taking her medication as she couldn't take it any more. 6 days later she passed in her sleep. It just shows that it was a cocktail of medication keeping her alive. I'm glad she was able to make her own decision.

The age of really generous pensions and ludicrous property prices seems to be coming slowly to, if not an end, at least diminishing. Over the next 20 years or so more and more people in this position will not be self funding so the care companies won't be so profitable (or the care homes will get much much worse in terms of staffing levels etc) because local authorities just won't be able to provide the same profit opportunities for the private equity vultures.who are profiting so much from all this.

Public health really needs to get a grip on shortening the gap between the end of the healthy life span and death. First by extending healthy life apan. But second....the solution we cannot name... allowing the suffering to come to a timely, comfortable and dignifies end.

How to enable that though? Even if it eventually comes in, most of these situations are inappropriate for assisted dying as competence has long gone.

However there surely comes a point where care can transition to a phase prioritising comfort and dignity can be - as a decision signalled in advance by the elderly person and endorsed at the time by key loved ones and care professionals together? And sooner and more openly than appears to happen now.

The fact that some posters on this board feel a relatives death eas hastened while others feel it was delayed unethically is very worrying. There should be transparent well understood procedures on this that we can all understand in advance of them needing to be begun..The secrecy and suspicion is causing huge suffering to relatives as well as preventing them confidently ensuring their loved ones get the help of whatever kin d their loved ones need.

My grandma died at 90. She still lived at home and we would take it in turns to go and visit her, take her out, batch cook for her freezer etc but she had been ready to die for about 5 years as her health startd to fail her.

She used to say, "When he comes for me now, I'll be happy to go."

She retired at 60 and spent her retirement travelling, involved with the church and community events etc. She had a lot of friends and was a wonderful grandma/great grandma.

She would have hated to go into a home and, when she had a fatal heart attack, I was called into the hospital and the staff said they'd tried to resuscitate her but only once because her body was too frail to take it.

I told them I was pleased they'd stopped because 'she wouldn't have thanked them'. They seemed shocked to hear it bit it was true.

Her quality of life had diminished amd she didn't want to.he an old lady sitting in chair staring at the TV all day. That would have been a fate worse than death for her.

I'm very afraid of being one of those old, old people who can't die.There is notable longevity on both sides of my family.

We've not had any family members in care homes. My DGM died of a stroke while going upstairs to bed at 98 after a half mile plus uphill walk back from the local working mens club, where she had her usual few Saturday night whiskies. I'd like a similar end.