Care homes make me think people never die

[rockrollerpud]

Recently I was given the news that someone I know died suddenly. Classic late seventies, living life totally normally, seemingly slim, fit and healthy, then gone within 24 hours from heart attack. This was surreal to me. And here is why.

I visit a relative in a care home weekly. And for want of better words, I’ve been visiting so long that I honestly feel like some people can’t die. Or at least, their bodies are just designed to trundle on like a diesel engine car with 200,000 miles on the clock.

Most of them are 80-100 years old. Many sit there all day asleep with their mouths open. Many are overweight, have multiple health conditions, yet they just don’t ever change from that. They go on for years/decades.

I have to say, there are far more women than men in the care home.

Quite regularly, I’ll read on here, that someone struggled at home but then went in a care home and only lasted 1-2 years. Yet I see the majority seem to live forever in the care homes.

Before I knew what I know now about elderly disease and decline, I’d always assumed that by the time I got to a care home, I’d be so spent, I’d only last a few years too. But now it’s freaking me out that I, like many others, could spend 15% of my life in one.

Anyone else a long term visitor to a care home and be shocked at this?

@YoullWishYourLifeAway No need to respond to my earlier post - Ive Googled it! Definitely seems like something my DH and I will do.

I agree, MiL had a biggish stroke 4 years ago. She was on for decent recovery so DH and BiL agreed to an NG feeding tube and then a PEG. She then had another stroke about 10 days later and has slowly deteriorated ever since.
She keeps getting chest infections which every time we all think she's going, but she rallies and goes back to pretty much where she started.
She has no life, can't walk, can't talk, can't swallow. It's miserable and she would hate being the way she is. So sad. At 87 she could go on like this forever.

So who will your care fall to, if or when you’re unable to manage alone, or one of you needs physical care the other isn’t strong or well enough to provide?

I understand the wish to remain independent and in your own space, but in order to do so you need to have made pretty serious provisions (and potentially adaptations) for the future, and thought through what will happen in every possible scenario.

Which you and your wife may have done, but too often the ‘I’m staying put’ decision comes at great cost to an elderly person’s closest relatives, who have to deal with all the arrangements, all the worry and stress, all the extra support, all the phone calls night and day. Plus the inevitable falls and emergencies that occur when someone is unable to properly care for themselves in a home that’s totally unsuitable for their stage of life.

Having gone through this in my own family and watched lots of friends do the same, I’d never be so selfish and stubborn as to inflict this on my own kids, and DH and I (late 50s) have already downsized and are thinking very seriously about our options in later years. If that means a care home, so be it.

I used to think dying meant you just went to bed one night and didn't wake up in the morning. If only it were that easy!

Having seen the endless limbo that some people endure, like PPs I am really focused on building a buffer of functional fitness in preparation for older age.

My siblings think I'm nuts, but one day I might dance around them dribbling in their bath chairs, singing "Who's the crazy one now, eh? eh, muthafuckas?!??"

lol what a load of nonsense

@Sidebeforeself it’s obviously something I will have to reassess from time to time but, having been widowed, and having a parent & grandparents who have suffered terribly, I’m quite certain I don’t want life dragging in.

www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/end-of-life-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

They are often sti private just with a LA contract

Long term low dose antibiotics given to prevent UTIs. Residents in long term bed care with eyes closed permanently being spoon fed a soft idea. All fluids thickened. This can go on for years. I think it's cruel but not sure what the solution is.

None of my many older relatives have ended up in a care home (nor had issues with mobility) and none have set foot in a gym or done any sort of weight training.

What they have done is housework, gardening and lots of walking. That’s been enough to keep them fit and mobile until they died. My mum is currently 80 and in good health/fitness. She does dog walks 3 times a day. Cleans her house, pops into town a couple of times a week. That’s it.

To be honest, I think the people who need additional exercise are those who drive everywhere, have cleaners etc. If your general life is reasonably active I think that’s good enough.

My aunt was the same. Parkinsons changed all that. It's an evil disease.

My dad had severe sepsis last year, alongside advanced dementia. He was already bed bound. It took 10 days for antibiotics to do anything and they said if they worked he would have even less quality of life. He survived, he’s got zero quality of life, he wouldn’t want this. I can’t help thinking that pre Harold Shipman he would have been helped along

I've recently experienced two types of loss, my mum aged almost 81 died in November after suffering a huge brain bleed, one minute here then next gone. She'd had a normal day - been out shopping, changed the beds, put washing on, cooked tea had a glass of wine etc.
It was (and still is) a huge shock.

A week later my Grandmother in law aged 100 died in a nursing home - She'd been a resident for almost 3 years and her quality of life in the last 12 months was imho pretty near zero. Up until being 94 she lived independently and fairly happily.

I wish my mum had been around for much longer but I wouldn't have wanted her to 'recover' from a stroke and require 24hr nursing, so I think it was the best for her.
Unfortunately we cant yet choose how long we will live but id take quality over quantity any day.

Actually, this thread is really helping me this morning. A safe space to say things people dont like hearing. We are currently battling trying to get the right care for DHs Dad and I feel awful for thinking “Why are we prolonging his life?’ But comments on here have really helped. Thanks.

My DF was kept alive long after he wanted to die. He had Home Care, & the carers cajoled him to eat just to cover their backs. The GP was sensible, & said if he doesn't want to eat just leave him alone. He ended up refusing liquid as well to hasten his death.
If he'd been in a Care Home, he'd probably not have had a GP to speak up for him, & been kept going against his will.

Exactly the same thing happened to my Mum - aged 79. She passed away three hours after collapsing and when i was told she had had a stroke I prayed she’d pass quickly because she’d always said being in care would be her worst nightmare.

They don't die, instead they become merely a tube which siphons the proceeds from their liquidated assets into the coffers of the care home.

From all I’ve read or heard, 2-4 years is about the average in a care home. We took out an annuity for my DM when she moved to a care home at very nearly 89. TBH despite her coming from a large and generally long-lived family, I didn’t really think she’d last more than a couple of years, but thank goodness my sister had the foresight to do it. DM went on to 97 and during her 8 years there (a specialist dementia home) I saw many residents arrive and quietly disappear after a couple of years.

It was at the 4 year point that my sister told me that we’d ’won the bet’, I.e. broken even - so presumably 4 years was the maximum period the annuity provider - after doing their sums and seeing her health records - had ‘bet’ on. The annuity covered the difference between her income and the care home fees, until she died.

TBH I think even the care home staff had begun to think she’d go on for ever - I certainly had! And with advanced dementia, the prolonged lifetime was certainly not any sort of blessing, either for her, or for us who had to witness the pitiful wreck she’d become.

Gosh this is barbaric. I’m so sorry. It’s just terrible.

Yes. My grandma developed dementia in her 70s and lived until her 90s. She had over 10 years in a care home! Initially, she was kind and forgetful, but she became childlike and then a vegetable. Her kids (including my dad) rented out her house to part fund, she had a widows’ pension from my grandpa’s occupation and the council took a charge on the balance, so they just about made it through in a nice nursing home before the money ran out. The pension scheme trustee and the council rang my dad very regularly to check she was still alive as they clearly could not believe it. She had a heart bypass about 5 years before she was diagnosed with dementia and I often think that it would have been better for her quality of life if she had just had a massive stroke when her heart gave out. She had a hip operation and a cataract operation whilst in a moderate state of dementia (the cataract operation was particularly sad as she couldn’t understand why she had the dressing on her eye and kept picking at it). I know that if there is a brain scan for dementia developed when I am getting older but still capable I plan to take myself to Switzerland when I still can - sitting in my own filth starving to death after being brought back by repeated bouts of pneumonia is awful, but it’s not possible to opt out of it by that stage. I also think that the Harold Shipman case has made end of life care far too cautious - if you’re genuinely dying (eg if you are nil by mouth, DNT, waiting on nature to take its course), doctors should be able to give a life shortening amount of morphine - it would have given us comfort to know that grandma was dying under medical supervision, rather than through starvation and pneumonia (nothing to do with inheritance - just whether taking well over a week to die barely conscious is really better than going out on a morphine high).

@rockrollerpudi completely agree with you. Years of just not being dead, rather than being alive. What’s the answer though ? Euthanasia- for people who are unable to consent or otherwise? It’s a nightmare.

My aunt is in a care home. She is 96, has dementia and can no longer weight bare so has to be hoisted in and out of bed, chairs etc. she is very well cared for which is both good and expensive . She gets regular chest infections but always bounces back. I am beginning to think she is going to last for years yet. I do hope that she leaves us before her money runs out and she ends up back in the dire care home she was in previously. I suppose though she probably won’t realise by then anyway. I love my aunt but thanks to the dementia, she’s largely gone as the person I love.

I actually think those stats are quite out of date. I know they used to be true. Do you have any dates for them?

My mum lived in her own home . The last 20 years on her own. She died at 93 - the day before she had gone up to town on a bus for her usual shopping and tea and cake. miss her

DH granny went on like this. Horrific for all concerned, most of all her. She was blind, deaf, being fed puree, bed bound, bleed on brain, the whole 9 yards of hell. The poor woman lived more than 15 years in this state. Absolutely shocking. It’s far, far better to die late 70s without too protracted a period of suffering. I worshipped my mum and cared for her 24/7 but I begged God and spirits to let her die because her cancer began to absolutely savagely wreck her body and life. She did die quite quickly after the cancer got bad, in a hospice in comfort.

As well as those living in a bad state in care homes, we have lots living in awful states at home. Lonely and broken both physically and mentally. Our society is uncivilised IMO and we need euthanasia. I fully intend to fly to dignitas if I’m terminal and able to do so. The suffering that the human body can tolerate is utterly horrific.

Yes, this was my parents a year ago, fully independent and active, only help was a gardener. We thought they'd live out thier days at home, LPAs were in place, stairlift installed etc. Now Dad is completely immobile but compos mentis in a home (4 care visits a day would not have been enough and their house not suitable for his needs despite stairlift etc). Mum is starting dementia (I think) and is miserable at home alone and spends most of her day at the care home with Dad.