Can anyone explain stubborness to help themselves/make life easier

[mysparkleismissing]

My parents are approaching their late 80s and are in reasonable health (really - no major diagnosis)

Dad is struggling with his mobility and really struggles to get in and out of a chair, can't walk any kind of distance (might need to sit down due to pain after a 5 minute walk) waiting on xrays on his back and neck which is where the issues are, knees are also an issue he's had one cleaned (he should have a replacement but has refused)

he wont take the (decent) painkillers he's been offered and is just taking paracetamol occassionally

he refuses to consider get a rising chair to help at home, wont use a stick and wont even consider getting a mobility scooter.

he's up many times a night (every hour or so) for the toilet - he's tried surgery to fix this but it hasn't worked. he sleeps for a few hours each afternoon but it's not enough as a good night's sleep.

i'm the youngest of their kids (we're all adults) and we've tried talking to him to encourage him to do things to help himself but he refuses. he is the most stubborn of people and is just annoying!

my sister changed tactic and asked him WHY he wont look into helping himself - and he didn't have an answer

anyone been in this situation - I just dont get it.... wondering if someone out there has an insight we've not thought of

I think its difficult to embrace or accept things that remind one of becoming older/frail/less able than they once were.
Ive resisted wearing varifocals because I remember my parents having them and they remind me of being older! But a year after refusing them at the opticians I feel like they probably would make things easier... 😬 Ditto i dont want a shopping trolley....even though I accept i could carry more things more easily!

(I can sympathise though, I recommended a mobility scooter to an elderly relative who really struggled to walk, but liked to go out, and nearly got my head bitten off! )

I think it is because they see needing help / assistance as a weakness. Maybe due to their age and when they grew up as well? Not sure, but I know others like it as well.

It’s difficult to generalise of course because everyone is different, but in my experience in at least one case it was because she liked the drama and attention gained from struggling. The struggles kind of gave a focus to life and a sense of identity - ‘I am someone having a hard time struggling with [whatever it is]’.

Making sensible adjustments would have removed this.

Maybe worth considering the type of attention your father is getting, and whether this revolves around the difficulties that would be ameliorated by the adjustments - it could be that at some level he is actually motivated by this not to help himself. People of all ages value the attention & concern of others.

My dad is very similar. He will be 90 this year. He is very frail, does have health issues, but will hold off seeing a doctor for as long as possible.
He refuses any help. Will only now use a stick to get around as his balance is really bad. He really could do with a walker, but absolutely refuses to use one! He will sometimes use my mum's walker, but he doesn't see that as him needing one, it's just "borrowing" mum's!

He definitely sees it as a weakness to ask for any help. He also hates getting old and won't acknowledge that he actually is.

I think it’s a Man Thing. You spend all your life being a strong breadwinner. When that’s obviously not the case, denial is the solution. Accepting help means admitting decline.

Maybe reframing will help? Get this ultra chair and it’ll keep your muscles strong?

It is really frustrating. It can’t be done every two minutes but when I occasionally let my frustration show it did sometimes cause a change.

A lot of older people are like this regardless of sex.

OP you can't force him to do anything. Maybe have the conversation that if he continues on this path his health will force him into a decision that he doesn't want to make. But honestly, decide on your boundaries and offer the support you are comfortable with.

It's really hard, I'm sorry you are going through this. 💐

I once suggested my parents get a stairlift as they were struggling going up and down stairs. They both had a go at me - how dare I suggest etc etc. Some months later my Dad began to really struggle dreadfully with the stairs and he asked me to sort out a stairlift.

I was so pleased they were seeing sense I managed not to say ----- we could have had this in and sorted if you had not been so angry about my suggestion 6 months ago.

Stairlift was the best thing they could have done to keep them in their own home as long as possible. But it was so frustrating.

If and when I am old I'll learn from the frustrations of dealing with elderly parents - my DM had stamina and mobility issues but refused to use a wheelchair ensuring she was almost house bound for the last 3 years of her life. She was still lively of spirit and could have had a much more enriched life but for her pride.
MIL complains about being constantly exhausted but insists in shopping in 3 supermarkets - won't countenance a single Tesco delivery which we'd arrange. FIL needs a stick but won't use one

The answer is in the first line of your post. They are in their late 80s. There is frankly not much which is going to help them, and it is also difficult to get used to new things.

My friend had a knee replacement in her 70s and the rehab is brutal, if your dad has back problems too it would be very hard on him to go through a knee replacement. You say he has had surgery for his nightly weeing issues and it didn’t help, so he may well not want to go through any more procedures which may fail.

The painkillers may have unpleasant side effects.

The one thing I don’t get is not using a stick. I used one when I had an injury and it was very helpful. But maybe your dad’s hands are stiff and sore, or maybe he would find it difficult to coordinate using it.

Honestly I would stop making suggestions and switch to sympathetic noises. It is hard being old and there isn't always something which will make it better.

No one wants to get old
most people will fight all signs of aging - refusing to use a stick or assistance chair isn’t much different to spending money on pumping chemicals into your face. It’s the same motivations

Some people (and my continuous experience) it's almost a victims/im so brave mentality. I look after a relative and the narrative they play out on Facebook and their close friends is...I'm so brave, I try all the time despite the difficulties. Crazyfrog does very little, not reliable, argues with me all the time, negative etc.

the reality is their long time health and mobility problems come from their continuous lifestyle. Their short term issues come from their bad decisions and inability to stick to the recovery plans put in place. I'm not negative, I'm just trying to save them money when they decide upon yet another inappropriate course of action that inevitably is expensive and won't work (repeated instances of them losing thousands over the years).

it's far nicer for them to lap up the admiration from online and absent people than actually make an effort at improving their own life and health.

I think lots will be about pride and making decisions for yourself rather than have someone younger tell you what you "should" do, or what would help (even if they are right and have good intentions) It might even be about having a visual reminder (for yourself and that others will see) of how much "help" you now need.

I dont know if ill be any better if I get to old age , im already resisting things now, in my 40s, as per my previous post (I resisted having varifocals and to anyone else they would probably look like normal glasses so they wouldnt necessarily know!)

'It’s difficult to generalise of course because everyone is different, but in my experience in at least one case it was because she liked the drama and attention gained from struggling. The struggles kind of gave a focus to life and a sense of identity - ‘I am someone having a hard time struggling with [whatever it is]’.'

I think this was definitely at play with my MIL. She complained ENDLESSLY about getting older and her very many health issues, but refused to do one single thing to make life easier. That could be refusing to do physio exercises, or not checking her blood sugar ever (diabetic), or refusing to discuss getting a supermarket delivery or a cleaner. It drove us around the bend, so I have loads of sympathy OP

She died a few years ago and with hindsight I can see that she was trying to control a situation that was probably very depressing and frightening for her. She also very strongly identified with being 'an old lady' (this started in her mid 60s🙄) and I think the health struggles were a part of that for her

For my MIL it’s pride & inability to realise that she is, now, objectively in a period of life where her body no longer works the same way it used to. In her head she’s an indefatigable globe trotting 30 something.

Consequently she’s had various falls, all of which are not her fault, but our problem to fix.

I tried with my mum.

She became increasingly less able due to her worsening health (no possibility of recovery at all) and went from a 'manageable through hours of daily pottering in the garden' to jungle in some areas which was hard for her to deal with emotionally. The same with the house - 3 bedrooms, 2 floors and she was struggling with the stairs.

Refused anything online, refused a mobile phone. Refused to make a will or do POA despite deteriorating health. Refused anything that would make her life easier (and mine as 'nominated' offspring by default). So frustrating.

What she did do, over a number of years, is declutter, which helped immensely when it came time to sell her house.

My dad and stepmum have EVERYTHING in place, have done for several years now. They're currently in the process of downsizing from a large 3 bed in a village to an apartment in town with shops, GP, transport network in walking distance. I am immensely grateful to them for this.

I'm in my 40s still and am taking small steps to streamline my life and belongings should the worst happen. Surely it's the kindest gift you can do for your children who usually end up carrying this kind of crap for years...

As I hit 50 the memories of people that I carry are often coloured by their attitude to aging.

Wonderful couple who's legacy is an amazing archive - inquisitive to the end, modest, always keen to embrace a new way of doing something. Inspiration, much missed.

My mum is a crazy narcissist but that woman is on it with admin, possessions and solving tomorrow's problems today.

My in-laws, the frustration we will have over the next few years will far out weigh their hospitality over decades. The ridiculous piles of cushions rather than a decent high chair. The poor lighting, the insistence of self reliance as everything gets sad and complicated. It's really frustrating and for my kids, it's going to overwhelm their younger memories of them with broken limbs and struggling.

Thank you so much for all the comments abd thoughts

I'm sick of hearing this 'pride' nonsense in my opinion it's stupidity, stubbornness and selfishness. We have this with my FIL who has just died of cancer and refused to go in to the hospice when he was dying despite multiple emergencies and hospital admissions, refused to sort their will and finances out, refused to take my MIL to the GP and get her an Alzheimer's diagnosis until 5 years after we knew she had issues, refused to move to a more suitable house an now my DH is having to manage their home, my MIL who has Alzheimer's and is rude to carers, won't try meals on wheels yet is unable to cook, doesn't want cleaners but sits on the sofa all day and can't/wont do it herself, won't come to Teaco to let us help her do shopping, won't try any social clubs, won't attend any medical appointments and we've realised now we had their post redirected she has missed about 10. My poor DH is on his knees trying to sort out the absolute mess of their lives following his dad's death, then when MIL has to go in a care home all their money will be gone in about 18 months in care home fees when they could have protected 50% of the assets years ago with a very simple will change which we begged them to do. They just buried their head in the sand and left it all for their son to deal with.

@toomanydicksonthedancefloor1 that sounds horrific, sorry you have had to deal with that.

OP it's so bloody frustrating isn't it. You have my sympathy.

My DF is the similar, 80, very depressed since my DM passed away 3 years ago. Great at taking his meds for heart and bp issues and will get to the GP thankfully. But he won't budge on taking more than a few paracetamol per week for chronic pain. Won't consider physio or any form of movement to get his body going as it's not going to help. Has told the GP about his "morning blues" but no actual detail, I think he thinks the GP would be able to read his mind. I end up translating and clarifying at the visits I can get to. I think for my DF it's a combo of: depression, likely cognitive decline, poor ability to communicate what's actually happening, disgust at being old. I was away for a week and the freedom to get away from all his problems and depression was wonderful, to enjoy my week and have fun with my DH & children was life affirming. I cried when I got home as I don't want to have to listen to any of his "old person problems & no solutions" anymore. He kicked it off again on my third day back.😩 Sorry for rant. Xx

I sympathise. My parents are deeply irritating in just the same way. I have decided it's because no one likes or accepts being older and in my case, they would never consider taking any advice I may give. They like me but I'm their child and obviously know nothing. I have stopped offering any advice because I'm not wasting my breath anymore. I now just nod and smile.

I mostly nod and smile too. Then occasionally, in a fit of optimism, suggest something like spending some of the attendance allowance on a cleaner. Looked at me like I was INSANE 😂

I have this as well. I suggested spending the attendance allowance on a taxi to the GP (they were complaining it was in another town and had to get the bus etc) but a firm no to that one. Or to taxis in general.

Won't take statins / BP meds even though it is sky high, and the GP wanted them to. Etc etc, won't take pain meds then moans about the pain. Argh.

I suggested a cleaner. Nope. Apparently they don't like strangers cleaning their things. Perfectly happy for relatives with jobs and various other major commitments to clean their things though.

I had the 'don't want strangers in the house' refusal with my grandparents. At the time I was only 50 and I just did not get it. They clearly needed help, they had money to pay for help, why the resistance?

Nearly 20 years later I do get it. They were 90 and they were very vulnerable, cognitively and physically frail, and they could not cope with strangers in their home. They would rather muddle along until they had absolutely no choice.

I know we all say we won't be like that. But I bet some of us will. I probably will, but at least I won't be annoying my children, because I don't have any.