Christmas issue but possibly longer term implications

[sparklingtrees]

Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum, and I’ve name changed just to avoid connections with other threads. Sorry this is a bit long.

My DPs are early/mid 80s and up til now have been pretty healthy, independent and cope well with little help. However they are slowing down and I’m seeing some changes eg unwillingness to drive further than just a couple of miles down the road. All understandable and in some ways I’m glad they aren’t trying to do things they aren’t confident with.

My DS and I are both in our 50s. I live - and have done for over 30 years - approx 5 hours away by car. DSis is around. 45 min drive from them. I’m very mindful that she may be concerned about the bulk of responsibility falling on her as DPs age, and want to do as much as I possibly can. I’ve started visiting more frequently, speak to them weekly on the phone (always have done) and generally keep in touch as much as possible.

An issue has now arisen which is bothering me and it relates to Christmas hosting. DPs have always hosted at theirs - they both like cooking and having everyone around them and for years we all gathered at their house on Christmas Day. For me and DS (and DH at the time although now divorced) this meant staying with them for several days. This continued until Covid broke the pattern and we couldn’t travel. Since then I have visited them either before or after Christmas, but been at home for Christmas Day, with DS (now a young adult), his girlfriend and my partner.

However, DPs continue to host my DSis, BiL and her two boys. I know that DS has suggested that they visit them during the day at some point but don’t stay for dinner as it’s too much work. DPs are resisting this.

What I don’t understand is why DS doesn’t offer to take them to her’s for Christmas dinner. If she’d visit them anyway, why not just pick them up, take them back for dinner and then either she or one of my nephews would take them back on Boxing Day? I know my nephews would happily do this as they are close to their grandparents.

I’ve contemplated offering to bring them home with me after a pre-Christmas visit but I know this would stress them out and my DM would start worrying in November about bad weather for travelling. She’d then start worrying about the return journey the moment she arrived. They also hate travelling on busy motorways and the journey back to mine involves a stretch on the M25!

I’m starting to get anxious about future years, particularly after we lose one of them. I’m worried about asking my DSis about this directly as it might look like I’m expecting her to take on more responsibility but it just seems like such a no brainer.

it’s worrying me as to how the future will unfold really. I fully intend to take on as much of the care as I can, particularly those things that can be arranged from a distance.

Any thoughts/advice/insight would be welcome! Thanks if you’re read this far.

I’m worried about asking my DSis about this directly as it might look like I’m expecting her to take on more responsibility but it just seems like such a no brainer.
but that is what you’re asking of your dsis and her family, to from now on, have the responsibility of hosting and taxi-ing your parents for Christmas. What if she said “it’s a no-brainer… you drive up on Christmas Eve, pick up the parents and host then take them home Boxing Day”?

I think this is for you parents and your sister to decide what they want to do. I would stay out of it.

@PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul Obviously I wouldn’t phrase it like that and anyway, a 5 hour drive is hardly a ‘no brainier’.

the point is that DSiS and her family are making the journey on Christmas Day to have dinner with my parents, so it’s not as if they ain’t already willing to make the journey and spend the day with DPs. It’s just that all the work is landing on DPs. I suppose I just feel that if our living arrangements were reversed, the suggestion I’ve made is what I would want to do.

I really want to share responsibility throughout the year so would be happy to discuss what more I can do, or could in future.

We normally take turns to have Dad for Christmas.

I agree it’s really important that your DSis doesn’t feel everything’s on her because she’s closest so I think you need to discuss it. How would your DPs feel about the option of them hosting & other family members bringing the food / cooking there?

Hello

i empathise gratefully at your post .Did this with my elderly step dad ( but at 19 ) so more like a family friend .

I live 60 miles away and have always entertained everyone at mine as we were 5 at home so adding a few more not a problem.

last year the friend step dad as dear mother had died a few years ago was feeling unwell and did not come over . Such a difference. Felt more relaxed but worried about the lonely man .

However everyone said what a fantastic day without the cold grumpy man ! Currently 79 . There are other people in his family - his own kids that ignore him - bad parent in the past .

But I think we should share our space with the lonely even if they are argumentative most of the time !

I’m worried about asking my DSis about this directly as it might look like I’m expecting her to take on more responsibility but it just seems like such a no brainer.
easy to say from your stance where youre
pushing stuff on to others! Whereas you can offer to taxi and host, if you want…

@PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul please don’t be so aggressive. I’ve been reading this forum for months and everyone always seems to be helpful and understanding, which was why I posted.

Sadly, I can’t turn back the clock 30 years and move back to my home town. When I left, I thought it would only be for a short time but life didn’t work out like that.

@EmpressaurusKitty this is a good idea, and one DSis and I have discussed. I suspect my DDad would struggle relinquish control of the kitchen at the moment but definitely and option for the future.

they both like cooking and having everyone around them and for years we all gathered at their house on Christmas Day...
.... However, DPs continue to host my DSis, BiL and her two boys. I know that DS has suggested that they visit them during the day at some point but don’t stay for dinner as it’s too much work. DPs are resisting this

Your parents are still wanting to host. Whether or not it's a lot of work for them, the current situation is what they want. Your sister has suggested a compromise but they've rejected it. She's probably thinking about the future too. You can have a chat with her to ask her thoughts without suggesting anything. Maybe she thinks that her suggestion, which your DP have rejected so far, was the first step to having them be guests when she hosts.

In the future your DP might accept DS's suggestion or might accept being guests at her house.

In any case, whatever you do, don't tell your sister what to do, even if you word it as a suggestion.

If your DP still want to do all the hosting and are still enjoying it I don't see what the problem is?

And if you expect DSIS to fix whatever this problem is, maybe you should leave it to her to decide what's best to be done?

It's inevitable your DSIS is going to take on more of the day to day work as time goes by. You need to have a proper conversation with her about how you can minimise the load for her.

There is still plenty you can do in this day and age - DBIL is close to MIL and does all the on hand stuff like hospital appointments; dh does all the finances and household admin. I did everything practical for mum, which we both knew would happen because of locations and other responsibilities, but Dsis whisked her away several times a year to give me a complete break.

@WalnutsAndFigs thst’s so helpful, thank you. I suspect that you’re on to something there about them still wanting to host and to not do so is something else they would be ‘giving in’ to. I know they’ve found things like a loss of confidence in driving hard.

DSis and I meet up several times a year on our own so your suggestions about opening up a conversation are helping me think more clearly. I’ll give some thought to the practical things I could do so that it’s clear that when the time comes, I will take on certain things. I think that opening the conversation by saying I’ve been thinking about what I can do from a distance might help avoid a situation where DSis is worried about being dumped on.

Just to say, I don’t expect DSis to fix this, sorry if that’s the impression I’ve given. I want us to do it together but was struggling to know how to open up the conversation. I tend to try and jump straight to solutions and realise I need to take a breath and think about the conversation with DSis as the next step.

i think the Christmas question has become amplified in my mind, so having a broader conversation in the new year about how we might share responsibilities (in general,not just Christmas) in the future would be a better way in.

The examples you’ve given from your own family are really useful and all things I’d be willing to do so will ensure DSis knows this. I’ll also spend some time reading this forum to get more examples of how to support elderly parents from a distance.

You just start the conversation. "Hey sis, now that parents are getting older, I wondered if you'd had any thoughts about how things should work for future support needs?" I've had this conversation with my sister. We then talked to our parents about it all.

@YourHappyGoldExpert such sensible advice. I tried this my lovely sister agreed other sibling did not and it became a mess, remaining the same …..mother response ‘ I don’t want that’s.

I'm in a similar situation in that my DS lives much closer and is able to pop round more often and be there in an emergency, and also help out practically from time to time. Her DC are also grown, mine aren't. We both work. I do a lot of help from a distance. We speak on the phone 2 or 3 times a week. I do their shopping online including weekly supermarket deliveries, clothes, home wares etc. I organise their utilities when fixes come up for renewal. Bought them tech like phones and security cameras and am their IT support! Parents have POA with both of us named as attorneys, but I'm the one that's activated it online and has used it for a few things at my DPs request. I joined their local Facebook group so I could find recommendations for trades/services local to them and organise them as needed. I've read through age UKs information so I can help them navigate the social care system as they start needing outside help. There's a huge amount that you can do to take the load off.

My parents were the same about the 'don't want that' and 'we'll be just fine' (then they stuck their heads back in the sand). The important thing I ended up with is that we were more aware of their wants and thoughts, if anything bad comes out of their rejection of help and lack of planning we can at least feel some peace about the fact we tried our best. So still was worth doing for us.

I think you’re a bit unreasonable in expecting someone to do an hour and a half round trip to pick them up in the morning and same to drop them back off in the evening on Christmas Day. I live a bit further away and can imagine this would be something my brother would expect me to do as his 6 hour journey one way makes him think I should drive for 4 hours in a day. It’s those kind of assumptions without considering your sisters needs and wants that will likely ruin the relationship. You said yourself you used to travel for Christmas, Covid stopped this and now you choose when you go up around Christmas. Your sisters has completely picked up the slack in ensuring your parents aren’t alone on Christmas Day. What if she would actually prefer to do something different? Have a nice day at home like you get to each year? I wonder if she wishes she’d made the choice to move 5 hours away too for a little bit more freedom and less expectation.

Regarding Christmas you could pay for them to go out for dinner.

Supporting your DSis to support them - ask her what you can do to help.

i’d suggest either a delivery from a local restaurant on christmas day if you can rely on them delivering timeously (we have had chinese or indian) or all of you go out to a local place and sit in (no dishes for anyone)

Thank you for all the advice everyone, there are some great suggestion here that will help me open up a conversation with DSis in the new year. At the moment DPs don't have ongoing support needs so we tend to end up in a 'what shall we do about Christmas?' situation in November. A bit of early planning in the context of how to share responsibilities in the longer term sounds well overdue.

@Facecream24 Thank you (genuinely!) for your thoughts from the perspective of someone in my DSis' position. It helps to understand that. You ask

'What if she would actually prefer to do something different? Have a nice day at home like you get to each year? I wonder if she wishes she’d made the choice to move 5 hours away too for a little bit more freedom and less expectation'.

Good questions and to be honest I haven't asked her. If I did though, I'd want to understand if she'd have traded the 'more freedom and less expectation' for all the free childcare and support provided by my DPs when her boys were small. DPs did the 90 min round trip once or twice a week to do after school care and various jobs around the house. I appreciate that by moving this wasn't an option for me - my choice but it doesn't mean that it wasn't hard to work full time and raise a child with no nearby family support. Not to mention feeling isolated when my marriage broke down.

I think this is sometimes an issue in elderly parents' discussion. We forget that the advantages available to the local adult child become disadvantages as the parents age and vice versa for the adult child further away.

It’s not tit for tat though is it. Did your parents want to do childcare or were they forced to? Perhaps they were retired and offered to help because they wanted to. They’d probably have done the same for you if you hadn’t chosen to move so far away. I had that thrown in my face too (although in my instance the childcare only lasted about a year). It’s very different doing a 90 min round trip when retired than it is trying to fit the journey in around a full time job and kids and still try to have somewhat of a life. That you found it hard and isolating isn’t your sister’s fault. Sorry as you can probably tell I’m still pretty bitter about the accusations I’ve had to put up with from my sibling!

Yeah... thinking about it in a tit for tat way will drive every one involved round the bend. It's too messy and full of emotion - jealousy, resentment etc about what parents "should" do for their adult children and what adult children "should" do for their parents. Also implicit in this way of thinking is that the support the parents provided to each adult child over the years should be accurately quantified and repaid in kind. Well life is rarely fair or equitable.

There are practical implications of distance that are absolutely real. You can't get around that. Moving away from parents (or them moving away from you) means it's harder for you to help each other when needed.

Really though it's not the adult children's duty or obligation to do anything for their parents as they age. The parents need to make provision for their old age without the expectation of imposing on their children. The children should be free to help as they wish to, each according to their own life circumstances at the time and desire to help.

OP, just have a conversation with your sister without reference to the past help your parents provided her. Figure out what each of you might be willing to do going forward and then let your parents know what your limits are. But do your parents actually have an expectation around you and your sister caring for them as they age? You've already made an assumption around hosting at Christmas that seems currently inaccurate. It would be better to have open conversations with your DP to find out what their thoughts actually are? Do they have plans? Have they made any provision?

@WalnutsAndFigs much more elegantly put than my effort 😂 but what I would want to say!

If you want to maintain a relationship with your sister, I’d add approach the conversation without judgement or assumption. Forget what you think you would do if roles were reversed - that’s easy for you as it’s a hypothetical scenario. She’s still not a 5 minute walk away and even if she was it doesn’t mean she should be the carer. You haven’t walked in her shoes and have no real idea what her day to day life is like given you live so far away.

edited to add.
forget the last bit of the questions about freedom as that’s what you’ve focussed on. Do you care what your sister wants to do for Christmas or do you just expect her to do her duty each year whilst you get to stay home. Just because she had childcare doesn’t mean she has an obligation to fill in gaps you’ve left living so far away.

The best thing you can do for your Dsis - in addition to sorting out admin where possible- is supporting her emotionally with it.

I don’t have a sibling and as an only have the sole weight of two elderly DPs with a high degree of care needs, although I am lucky that DH is also supporting with the two hour round trips etc.

I have noticed though on Elderly Parents threads that there is often a theme that the adult DC who lives far away rocks up a couple of times a year dispensing advice and criticism. Now I am sure that’s not you OP, but airing your thoughts to Dsis about how her household could easily transport the DPs to and from for CD and that’s what you would do, is veering very close into that territory, so I am glad you aren’t going to say it.

If I were lucky enough to have a Dsis who lived much closer than me then the main thing I would do is agree as much as possible with any decisions she made. She lives closer, sees them more often and has a better handle on how they are managing. Up until DMs fall earlier this year, she - 87 now - was keen to prepare some form of christmas dinner, even if in latter years we really would have preferred it if she didn’t!

What I don’t understand is why DS doesn’t offer to take them to her’s for Christmas dinner.

What I don't understand is why you don't go and stay with them over Christmas, like you used to do, and do all the hosting work?