Old men and using the toilet ….?

[jwoo23]

Hello! Looking for advice from any care home workers that can advise on the best cleaning solutions for the gallons of urine that gets deposited around every lavatory in the house when both my elderly father or FIL come to stay!!!!!

They are both from a generation that would balk at the idea of a sit-down wee. Plus they don’t seem to ever even quite make it to the toilet in the middle of the night either, so the trail of urine quite often starts somewhere near the bathroom door! Not helped either by the fact that they both love a few drinks on regular occasion which exacerbates the issue!

I know age will get all of us, so I don’t want to be insensitive, and also, even if I didn’t care about being insensitive, mentioning it to either of these ‘characters’ would be fruitless. They wouldn’t change their ways even if they were initially embarrassed.

They can’t be in the minority? In my mind, therefore, care homes must have copious amounts of urine on the bottom of slippers and trodden in to all carpets?

When they come to stay I feel like I am constantly inspecting and cleaning whole puddles of piss from the seat, under the seat, behind the seat and all over the floor before I can get in and on with my own business. And worse, before I can let the toddler in the bathroom who would be oblivious to putting her hands in it as she climbs onto the toilet trying to be so independent!

Any advice? I have disinfectant and special pee only cleaning cloths stashed in each loo trying to be discrete but would be grateful to know how anyone else or those who work in a care home deal with this. It honestly takes up so much of my time when they’re here!

Thank you!

Yeah you're not wrong. It does require dexterity to safely open and close it.

It's true if they are just gonna pish all over your home it's not fair on anyone. They need to use continence products like pads or adult nappy type thing if they're that unable to control bladder.

But that's not Ops problem so yeah, politely decline their visits.

With my dad I put a pedestal mat round the loo which caught most of it and it saved a lot of work, I could just throw them in the wash.

That doesn’t stop the trail from the bedroom to the bathroom! Plus unless the mat has waterproof backing, it’s useless. This is an old thread. Perhaps OP would let us know how she solved the problem. My solution would be to always visit them at their house!

Fair point but at least it could be washed down with disinfectant mop of a day and put away when family returns home
Better than having urine seeping into carpet

But equally, why does OP have tje lovely task of cleaning down others urine??

Yes but OP would have to mop every time he went to the toilet which is probably a lot! Better to use water proof backed pads, of which a lot would be needed. What about downstairs and carpets? He probably wouldn’t wear incontinence pads so I’m afraid I’d be visiting him in his own house as I would dread him visiting mine!

I feel your pain we lived woth my partners mum for 18 months who is in her late 70s and the amount of times I had to clean poo and wee from the bathroom floor or the loo as she didn't quite make it. Its sadly just an age thing. I think all you can do os keep cleaning it up really.

It gets intolerable though, and very difficult to prevent smells. Incontinence pants is the way to go. I’m in my late seventies, Better start stocking up now!

Same issue with my late father, it was too awkward for me to say anything so I just checked the toilet after him and cleaned up but was silently seething. He had a key to my home and if he was passing would call in to use the loo. I would get home from work to find puddles of pee all over the seat and pooling at the back of the toilet ffs. No way he couldn't have known he had done it. In the end I made an excuse and took the key off him. If he couldn't treat me and my home with respect he wasn't having access to it while I wasn't there. He didn't have mobility/healh issues or cognitive issues so there is no way he would not have known. I sound awful I know but I do wonder are most old men like this? I loved him but as far as this was concerned I just felt he was dirty and lazy. He didn't wash his hands either but I know that wasn't a result of him getting older as he was never a hand washer

Going from the op’s original post the problem seems to be when her dad and FIL get up to use toilet during the night which a lot of older people have to do (especially when alcohol is involved) so she wouldn’t be cleaning up after each visit to toilet during the day.
So this would at least alleviate the problem of the nightly visits where they’re getting up to use the toilet and save upstairs carpet
Agree it’s grim but it’s a way to go there’s no way I would have been asking my dad or fil to wear incontinence pads while visiting.

Unless they have dementia, age is not an excuse. It is just arrogant men who have always had women clearing up after them. Why on earth are you allowing them to get drunk at your house? There needs to be a conversation.

I take it these are elderly men that you love? And you don’t say how old, but pretty elderly?
My wonderful in laws both had issues as they got older- Fil had had 2 knee replacements (which left him in constant pain) plus severe arthritis in his ankles, shoulders and elbows. Sitting to pee wasn’t going to happen.
Mil had Parkinson’s- and although she wore pads (she was so embarrassed we weren’t supposed to know) she often missed a bit when getting on the loo.

No, it wasn’t pleasant- but rubber gloves, cleaning products, regular checking and washable pedestal mats (several all the same so washed and dried every day) dealt with the problem.
Perhaps we should have refused to have them to stay? Embarrassed them? It wasn’t for long in the overall scheme of things sadly, but you do what you have to do.

Thank you. A post that seems to show some empathy and understands the impossible-ness of the situation. These are people that I cannot simply refuse to have in my house. These are men of a generation where women simply DID do all the cleaning up after them. And even my own father, who was such a modern-day man and father and so capable of looking after himself in his younger years, has unfortunately turned to an old old man of generations gone by. He is too old to get down on his hands and knees and clean up after himself. And so is my FIL really now too, although he has always had a very old-fashioned attitude towards ‘domestic chores’ which frustrates me.
But embarrassing them is out of the question. I am hoping that it might get to a point where a healthcare professional recommends that they always have sit-down wees. But regardless, being old, they still inevitably won’t always make it in time. And yes, of course alcohol makes it worse for both of them. But again, I can’t tell them not to drink! If they had a pint of squash before bed it would have the same effect I guess.

So, it appears that there is no real answer. Apart from donning the rubber gloves several times a day, keeping the pet disinfectant close to hand, and keeping our bathroom out of bounds to guests so that there is somewhere safe for my small child to go. I may try the mat round the toilet for when they stay, but it just seems less hygienic than being able to disinfect a hard floor. Care homes must be riddled with wee, irregardless of alcohol consumption, due to all sorts of healthcare complications and lack of mobility. But you wouldn’t dream of embarrassing people by telling them they’re missing the toilet. I am sure a lot of them know and I’m sure there’s a lot of people also, that aren’t too embarrassed to fess up and ask for help. Accidents can’t be helped.

I think I am more frustrated with my FIL as I’m sure he knows he’s doing it, but his stubbornness (he is a stubborn man, old or not) for not even considering that he could sit down to make his life (and everyone else’s) easier just pisses me off! Excuse the pun. It wouldn’t be considered manly in his eyes!! And his lack of ability to say to his son, “I think I’ve made a bit of a mess in there do you have any disinfectant?” to stop anyone having to go in straight after him and not expect it. Although we’re used to it now I guess.
My husband has been staying with him a lot recently for various reasons, and the topic of cleaning has been coming up, but my husband hasn’t been able to broach the subject of toilet hygiene yet, as they’ve had a lot else going on. But it is on the agenda. And my husband is going to make contact with his GP (a bit on the sly) to make sure my husband can be better kept in the loop with ongoing health concerns.

So there you have it. Disinfectant all the way. And to try and be patient. I just hope that I will be a better communicator if I’m struggling when I get old, and not too embarrassed to ask for help. But my god, if we could get FIL to have sit-down wees it would be an absolute revelation for all I’m sure, and I’ll come straight back on here and let you all know! Then I think I would find it easier to forgive any accidents!!!

Yep, I’m with you on the silently seething!!! Less so with my own father as he really is old and less mobile, but with my FIL who just refuses to even entertain the idea of sitting down as it’s not manly!!!! But he must see the mess he makes!!! And why does he just then assume that it’s someone else’s job to clean up after him!! It enrages me! Internally anyway!!!
However, my husband, staying with him recently, watched him try to mop up spilt tea on the worktop with a scrap envelope. When there was kitchen roll, sponge cloth, tea towel etc right there! We have considered that dementia might be on its way in too because of instances like that. But he also glorifies in his ‘bachelor lifestyle’. He’s just an awkward character all round really.

Yes, we’re definitely trying to be more proactive about my FIL’s care but he is so stubborn, he wouldn’t actually let us - he has everything under control of course!!! So we’re having to be a bit sneaky. And he would definitely be too embarrassed to discuss anything like that with me, but may have more luck with my husband.
My mum is quite good at bossing my dad about to be fair, so I’ll get her to make that suggestion. My Dad loves getting another ailment - something else to moan about, except he’ll probably then use it as an excuse!!!

My dad wore male incontinence y-fronts.
They were washable on a hot wash.
I have no idea whether these were the work of my mum , or the nurse at the renal cancer unit. But he was quite happy with himself, having some control over the problem, and he asked me to order more online, so overcame his embarrassment. Lovely man that he was.

Could your mum have a word with your dad, and your DH with his dad?

i remember reading somewhere to use shaving foam. I’ve been in this situation and sprayed shaving foam round the base of the toilet and even the toilet seat and this seemed to work really well.

It’s still a lot of work for OP. Why do they have to stay over, when it causes problems and they’re not willing to make life easier by complying with wearing incontinent pants or sitting down to wee, a practice which seems to be used more by men of all ages. It’s all very well being dignified, but there’s nothing dignified by constant wetting on the host’s floors. Surely they are aware of the problem?

Re reading the original post it appears it’s a problem day and night. I think it’s futile to talk about mats and shaving foam. I would have to say that it appears there is a problem and perhaps they could alleviate it by sitting to wee or using pads or pants. If it’s better broached by a male family member, fine. They can’t be oblivious to the smell and constant cleaning. It’s selfish of them to carry on like this. Embarrassment shouldn’t be a barrier ,it needs to be said. If they are unwilling to play their part then only short visits can be made to OP’s house.

I don’t understand…..have they got their tackle out as they walk into the bathroom? Otherwise how is pee getting onto the floor rather than just leaking onto their clothes?

All those essentially saying be gentle with them / suggesting products. All very well to address any existing smells etc, but come on, OP. You need to grow a backbone and be very clear that they need to use a pad/pants or similar and that they are to sit down or otherwise they will need to see you elsewhere. Ensure they have appropriately sought health advice but otherwise why are you tolerating this? It is disrespectful towards you and your home that you do not want smelling and covered in urine and it is not your job to unnecessarily be cleaning up after them. Just to be clear, I recognise they may not be able to help it, but they can help how they are managing and responding to it (or those supporting them if they are not able to) which at the moment they are choosing not to and instead letting you have to deal with the consequences.

👏👏👏

I have to say I don’t think that ‘dignity’ means ‘never talking about significant health problems or admitting there are issues’. For sure, don’t start a loud conversation about it in public, or shout at them about it. But treating someone in a dignified way to me would definitely include having a conversation about this.

Having said that… I never really managed to talk to my mum about her incontinence. In her mind it wasn’t a big issue because she only used panty liners. The fact that they were completely inadequate to the job was neither here nor there.

I don’t know who should raise this issue with them, but as a practical concern, it would seem more than reasonable to say ‘it’s not so easy for you to get to the toilet in time I see. Is there anything you find helps with that? Can we get any equipment here for you when you stay? Have you seen the nurses about it - did they make any suggestions?’ And I hate to say it but it isn’t actually compulsory to drink alcohol. A pint of squash would probably not have the same effect.

Apparently cheap shaving foam, the white stuff, spray around the floor area and it naturalises the smell. Not sure how it would be on carpets or rugs right enough. Good luck

Rereading the original post the op has posted

They are both from a generation that would bulk at the idea of a sit down wee plus they don’t seem to ever quite make it to the toilet in the middle of the night either so the trail of urine quite often starts somewhere near the bathroom door

which is why I suggested a plastic see through runner to save the carpet which could be cleaned and stowed away when they are not visiting
Granted the actual toilet area is going to be an ongoing cleaning problem so no. I don’t think it’s futile to suggest solutions she ask for to keep the house clean and deodorised
She has already said she doesn’t feel comfortable insisting they sit down to wee or wear incontinence pads as would most people with an elderly relative as it would cause embarrassment for her and her father & especially her fil although luckily her husband is on board with trying to tackle the problem as sensitively as possible
As to your point about them being oblivious to the smell unfortunately there are a lot of elderly men and women where their sense of smell is not as sharp as it should be and these are both men of a generation that probably are oblivious to to seeing women doing the bulk of cleaning not saying it’s right but it is what it is
and it would be a shame to restrict their visits over a problem that can be tackled sensitively as she seems to want to do who knows how long they are going to be around

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