If a parent goes into a care home will the LA come for some of the money from the sale of their house?

[Thebluespoon]

Once the remaining partner (who is currently living in the house) dies?

I am not sure if I should have placed this thread in the Money matters section but thought there may be some people on here who have gone through this.

I am a bit confused following a meeting with my parents finanical advisor.

Mum has Alzheimer;'s, it's been 7 years since her diagnosis. She lives at home with my dad and between my dad, my sister and myself we have been helping to look after her. However, following an awful fall in June and subsequent hospital stay mum's dementia has progressed rapidly and she is now double incontinent and can only walk aided and even that is tricky. We now have private carers who come in 3 times a day.

We are hoping to keep mum at home for as long as possible but we are aware we are on borrowed time and there will come a point when the home carers are not enough and we will not be able to cope, at this point we will have no choice but to look into care homes.

Mum and dad have investments. Because of mum's recent change in circumstances Dad and I had a meeting with his financial advisor yesterday. My parents investments were changed after mum's diagnosis in 2018 and most of them are now in dad's name (all done under the financial advisor's advice). There is a fairly good chunk under mum's name but this wouldn't last too long if mum went into a care home tbh.

The financial advisor said as soon as mum's investments fall to below the £23,250 threshold the LA will step in and pay (obviously that will be after a full assessment).

Mum and dad own their own home and I know the LA can not force any sale of the house whilst dad is alive and resisding there but I was under the belief that if dad were to die or mum ran up a care bill which exceeded the amount she has in investments then the LA can take the remainding figure from the sale of the house (after dad passes away or if he were to die whilst mum is still in care). The financial advisor says this would not happen.

I am a bit confused as I hear constant stories of people in care homes having to sell their homes to pay for the fees or a large chunk taken out from the sale of a house once the remaining partner passes away and leaves the house empty.

Does anyone have any experience of this sort of issue?

Should also add that my dad's side of things are all in trusts, this was set up by their solicitor.

You don’t need to apologize nor justify your language. I along with a lot of posters here read nothing into the language you used, and simply understood the question you asked.

This is a very difficult time. I’ve just moved my mother to a care home (dementia) and she’s much better off for it; the guilt I felt I realized was more to do with me than her. She simply wasn’t getting as good care and help at home with private carers that she is now getting.

Good luck with everything.

Just do your best for your Mum, seek whatever professional advice you need , protect your own health, and ignore unpleasant comments on here. Hope all goes well.

But they should. Mum owns half a property once her self funding runs out the council should be be able to offset her costs until her half of the asset is gone. It should be a charge on the property held until Dad is no longer resident in the property.

I'm slightly worried that you changed the investments into your dad's name when you mum received her diagnosis. That could be seen as you depriving your mum of money that could be used for her care.
If they decide that's the case they'll expect it to be paid back. It won't matter if its in trust and you can't access it you'll be expected to find it from somewhere.
Are you aware that when mum is funded by the council she will lose her pensions apart from the £30 personal allowance amount (to cover clothing, haircuts, etc) and if she gets attendance allowance that will go to the care home too. Your dad may need to look at how he will manage the bills and upkeep of the property with a reduced income.

We’ve been through similar with my aunt and uncle. Almost all their life savings had been spent on care home fees for the spouse in care and the LA were making noises about a charge on the property.

Following legal advice, they severed the joint tenancy on the property so they each had their own separate share, rather than co-owning the entire property.

They closed the joint bank account and split their last £46,500 between two individual accounts.

The spouse remaining in the family home changed their Will. It was nonsensical to leave the estate to the spouse in care. So they have left their estate to the children.

What has happened is your DF has instigated deprivation of assets. Your poor DM may not have had capacity to make the decision to sign over her shares in the investments to her DH so this could be fraudulent regardless as to what an FA has told him. You’ve made it clear it was to avoid care home fees.
So now, all your DMs assets and half of any assets in joint names, plus all her income from pensions, will form the basis of a financial assessment. If the house if owned as joint tenants and your DF still lives there it will not be included as an asset. If your DF dies before your DM, then it will be included. As your DM no longer has capacity, the house ownership cannot now be changed to avoid this.
The FA is partially correct - once her assets fell below £23500, the LA will become a partial funder. She will still have to contribute - all her income will be taken into account plus some of her savings - until her assets fall below £14250, but even then her income will still be taken into account leaving her with approx £30 a week personal allowance.
‘What is important to note is that the care home that is chosen as a self funder may not be paid for by the LA when they have to fund some of the fees - they will have a budget that they stick to. A swanky care home certainly won’t meet that criteria and she likely will have to move.

Worth pointing out that when there is a joint tenancy, either party can unilaterally sever it. They'd then become tenants in common and the survivor wouldn't automatically inherit the first deceased's share- it would have to be willed to them specifically.

This is not true. While OPs dad is living there the house is ignored. No charge will be put on it.

This makes it sound like the house is owned at tenants in common.

Just want to issue a comment about anyone using trusts - I have a friend in a very complicated situation due to a house being put in a trust and a person although disabled , dying out the blue - the remaining spouse needs to access money desparately from the house as they were not in the financial position they thought they were and is now finding it really hard and expensive to unravel this - they aren’t always as much of an easy option as they might seem

I said thats what should happen not what does happen - in response to the quote

Basically what all these people are doing with their trusts etc is to try to wiggle out of supporting themselves in their old age.

Thought the same, though it's worth OP double checking.

Seems the most obvious explanation though. Even if they were previously JTs, I'd expect a solicitor to explain this as one of the options to a couple seeking advice after one has a dementia diagnosis. Any joint tenant can sever the JT without the permission of the other/s, and once that's done DF could will his share to the dog's home if he liked. There's no legal obligation to own your assets in a way that maximises the amount the LA is able to recover for another person's care.

The council can and will go for recouping the cost of your Mum's care from her share of the house. Leaving the £23k alone.

I am amazed that the solicitor did not advise you or your father that, if the time comes, the local authority may judge the investments being moved after your mum’s diagnosis as being a deliberate deprivation of assets if she runs out of money to fund her potential stay in a home. You or him need to get proper legal advice on this.

Thank you. I'm sorry you have been through this also and twice, that must have been very draining.

The lady from SS told me to avoid the big fancy care homes, in her opinion they are never the best homes for those with dementia.

That's exactly it, well done you for hitting the nail on the head, bravo.

Yes, I've spent the last 7 years caring for my mother, cleaning her up after she's soiled herself, crying my eyes out every time she looks at me blankly and asks who I am, slowly becoming more unwell because the stress has exacerbated my chronic health issues all because I can't wait to get my hands on my parents money. Yes, I'm hoping the tax payer (including my own DH) will foot the bill because I am so materialistic that I can't wait to get my hands on that money and buy buy buy.

How very perceptive of you.

Thank you. It must be a relief to find somewhere so near. I hope we can do the same for mum.

She went into respite in April and the care home said much the same thing, they have never had to relocate a resident once the money runs out.

Apologies for hijacking the thread, but if someone is fully funded via CHC, are they still entitled to the state pension?

That's good to know. Thank you.

The legal charge on the property would basically mean that when your father dies the LA can recoup money owed to them that was not paid because the house could not be sold while he had need of it as his main dwelling.

Yes they are. CHC is a non-means tested health service funding stream and retirement or other pensions are irrelevant.

Thank you 😊

I agree that it is very very unusual for an LA to relocate a settled older person when they can no longer financially top up.

Not under current social care rules! They don't and can't put charges on houses where the spouse still lives there.