Should what they NEED trump what they WANT?

[BlueLegume]

Just that really. I have had several threads on Elderly Parents and they have quite frankly kept me sane over several years of dealing with difficult aging parents.

Recently I have taken a huge step back but have really struggled reflecting on just how difficult my parents have always been, not just in old age. Critical, judgemental, unreasonably high standards that mere mortals like me would never meet.

Got me to thinking about wider issues and one in particular being that over many years when my parents have come to me with moans about life and I have come up with suggestions their stock response is ‘we don’t want that’ or ‘that won’t work for us’. The latter being a 15 year discussion about installing a downstairs loo/shower room - they had/have room for it.

Do some people just not see what they NEED trumps what they WANT?

We downsized earlier than we might have needed to because we wanted to enjoy our 60s in a more suitable space and knew it would be a hassle. It was but we were still capable of sorting everything out. Not sure 10 years later we would have managed and I didn’t want to have my adult kids lives disrupted by us needing their assistance.

Anyway as adults I do think there comes a time where what you need overrides what you want.

As ever interested in MN views as I am open to discussion.

And one thing I know for sure;
What your parents wants should never trump what you need.

Capacity is very slippery.

Someone can still have the ability to make decisions but not the ability to really understand consequences. Especially if those consequences go against what they want.

Someone can sound perfectly sensible 'I don't need a cleaner'. But what you can't hear is the internal voice which is saying 'because DD/DDIL will do it' forgetting or ignoring that DD/DDIL now live hundreds of miles away and only visit occasionally.

IMO capacity often starts to go long before it is recognised. Also, I have noticed that officialdom are quite happy to decide whether or not someone has capacity according to what suits their own purposes.

@BlueLegume you have my sympathy. We skipped this grey area stage as my DM went from okay-ish to care home across the space of 3 months as a result of a fall.

Oh my goodness
light bulb moment.
many years ago we called round at mil (divorced) - narc tendencies.
It was just a drop in.

She was entertaining her daughter and daughter’s new boyfriend.
It was youngest daughter , so a good 40 years difference between mil and this new boyfriend.
Mil was almost giddy with joy as she fussed around him with food , and drink, and, I swear, batting her eyes at him - he must have found it most odd.
I had never seen her as animated ( or moving so nimbly with a girlish giggly)

@BlueLegume

Are you trying to do this on your own? You might find that a good counsellor / therapist can help you work though it more productively and give you tools to call on and different ways to frame conversations and events.

@rickyrickygrimes I am doing it alone at the moment yes, badly probably. I have had some therapy and was really hoping I could feel empowered to deal with my mother with all the tools the therapist equipped me with. Sadly I did not really make much headway as as soon as the therapy stopped and I started to put some boundaries in my mother doubled down on her awful behaviour.

I think I need to seek out some therapy looking at acceptance of the situation. According to one of my siblings ‘your problem BlueLegume is that you are always trying to find solutions’. He is much cleverer than me with a high powered job in education so maybe he is right. Although I found that to be a bit of a word salad. As in my mother tells me a fence panel is down. I get it fixed. He looks at it and sympathises with her.

I think this is true

According to one of my siblings ‘your problem BlueLegume is that you are always trying to find solutions’. He is much cleverer than me with a high powered job in education so maybe he is right. Although I found that to be a bit of a word salad. As in my mother tells me a fence panel is down. I get it fixed. He looks at it and sympathises with her.

Yes. And which of you ends up exhausted from doing all the work?

Finding solutions is good. But constantly finding solutions for things that aren't your problem is creating a problem for you.

@BlueLegume I think a lot about mental capacity and how we're told it's so important for our elderly parents to make their own decisions. I feel not enough is made of our our capacity to make our own decisions.

I'm getting better at it. My mother is in a care home now. She still talks about going home and recently had a go at me for reminding her of the difficulties she would face, should she do so.

My solution to that was to say well why not try it. I know full well she's not capable of sorting it out for herself and I am not willing to do it.

Someone here mentioned the Let Them Theory. I recently listened to the audio book and found it very helpful. The Let Me part is what makes it I think.

It's really hard to let go of years and years of family conditioning.

Jumping to find solutions is a way of controlling anxiety, by trying to control the situation - every situation - that arises. Like I said my sister has GAD and has had tons of counselling, and part of that is definitely learning to observe in the moment rather than react immediately. Or at least to pause and decide if you want to react, and if so, how? O think therapy often has to be ongoing rather than a quick fix.

It’s so nice to hear about you, rather than your mum! Even if you are putting yourself down so much. I am quite certain you are just as ‘clever’ as your brother, you are just a different person who’s had a different life. Sending you a very un-Mumsnetty hug 🤗.

There’s a term that comes to mind here. ‘Askhole.’ I saw it recently to describe someone who complains or asks for advice but then ignores advice which would help them. With elderly people it is complicated. They’re at a time in their lives where they feel discomfort but making certain changes is like an acknowledgement that they’re getting old and frail, so they don’t want to make certain changes. Unfortunately they can be a bit like toddlers in terms of the stubbornness. They feel less in control so cling to the need to be in control and one way is by saying no.

in my experience, sometimes you just have to accept it but like with toddlers it’s about choosing battles. Also, I found finding the shades of grey to be helpful. Sometimes there is more than one solution to a problem and it may be about working together to find one which works or even to just go essy on the persuasion. Sometimes the more you persuade, the more they dig in out of stubbornness.

you have my sympathy. It is frustrating when good advice is ignored but it’s about learning to navigate.

@BlueLegume bad daughters anonymous! Thank you for the thread and the helpful opportunity to remember all we’ve learned.

I’ve realised that between caring for parents and children, I forgot who I am and what I enjoy. I’m taking baby steps in making space for me. I’m also mindful of when I try to ‘fix’ my children because of behaviour I learned as a child. I need to let all of them fly or fail.

As a daughter I am making a lot of effort to have the boundaries to just do what I want to do now. Any great escape DF will need to mastermind and execute himself.

@BlueLegume going back to your OP, we were fortunate that DPIL and DM did react to their changing needs. They both moved to bungalows which helped to keep their independence well into their 80s.

We are in our late 50s and probably planning our retirement much thoughtfully than our parents did.

We are also much more open with our DCs about our plans than DM was. DM's secrecy around finances has made sorting things for financing care more complicated than it needed to be.