Should what they NEED trump what they WANT?

[BlueLegume]

Just that really. I have had several threads on Elderly Parents and they have quite frankly kept me sane over several years of dealing with difficult aging parents.

Recently I have taken a huge step back but have really struggled reflecting on just how difficult my parents have always been, not just in old age. Critical, judgemental, unreasonably high standards that mere mortals like me would never meet.

Got me to thinking about wider issues and one in particular being that over many years when my parents have come to me with moans about life and I have come up with suggestions their stock response is ‘we don’t want that’ or ‘that won’t work for us’. The latter being a 15 year discussion about installing a downstairs loo/shower room - they had/have room for it.

Do some people just not see what they NEED trumps what they WANT?

We downsized earlier than we might have needed to because we wanted to enjoy our 60s in a more suitable space and knew it would be a hassle. It was but we were still capable of sorting everything out. Not sure 10 years later we would have managed and I didn’t want to have my adult kids lives disrupted by us needing their assistance.

Anyway as adults I do think there comes a time where what you need overrides what you want.

As ever interested in MN views as I am open to discussion.

Unfortunately as long as they have capacity, their wants trump everything.
I’ve found with the elderly that they like to have something to complain about, they don’t want you to actually solve the problem. You have to put up with the moans.

All too soon they'll be gone, hard as it is the best way is to put up with them and learn from them how you want to and don't want to be for your family. They'll not change now so accept them for who they are.

They might see it - but still not be willing to make what they see as the sacrifice 🤷‍♀️ My parents live very rurally, in a home that they built themselves over 40 years ago. At some point they will likely ‘need’ to move as they are completely car dependent and the garden is huge. But they are extremely unlikely to. My dad ‘needs’ to live there, is how he would see it I think.

And if they are of (relatively) sound mind, who am I to decide what they ‘need’? Or that my view trumps theirs? I can only decide what I will do in response to any requests for help to facilitate whatever choices they make.

I think the issue here is that your parents are horrible people and you're turning yourself inside out to look after them. Please look after yourself first and foremost. Drop the rope, let them do their thing.

If they have capacity they can make their bad decisions and live with the consequences. You don't have to make it better for them.

All good points which I guess I know. Just seems unreasonable that what someone wants then impacts so many other people having to rally round so they get their wishes. As I say I have taken a huge step back as it made me ill and was impacting on my own family as I was so emotionally, physically and mentally exhausted trying to keep things going.

Good to hear the usual sound advice.

I should add that I personally have every intention of moving somewhere rural as soon as I am finally free of children and work! I’m thinking small Scottish island. I will be in my 60s. I have no intention of moving anywhere sensible while I’m still relatively young and in good health.

@rickyrickygrimes absolutely understand your choice and it sounds great. I think I am at a point with 60 plus years of parents being difficult generally that I am exhausted listening to them, well specially now my mother and seeing how controlling she is and always has been. Nothing anyone does for her is ever right.
As I say I have stepped right back but the inevitable crisis is always looming over me. Her view is she won’t have any outside help it has to be her kids doing for her. Shopping for her - she will only eat specific things which are often not easy to pick up. Perhaps I am just jaded and would quite like a break from living in a never ending riddle.

Her view is she won’t have any outside help it has to be her kids doing for her.

That doesn't mean you have to do it! No mum I'm not doing your cleaning, you can do it yourself or get a cleaner.

Have you been in the Relationships section and read the stately homes thread? It's for children of abusive parents. Sadly I think you'd find a lot of resonance there.

@DisplayPurposesOnly yes I am familiar with that thread. Probably time to revisit. Unfortunately she refuses to have a cleaner and apparently ’can’t’ (won’t) do it herself even though she’s capable. She is very performative and always has been.

Just leave them to it, op. You are old enough now to make a big effort with your FOG.

My dh is currently considering driving the 100 miles to his parents and staying overnight to help them fill in their housing benefit form (ffs). I'm staying out of it although will slightly resent the cost of the petrol involved in doing that as we are broke atm and selling possessions on Facebook Marketplace. He's doing it because he feels guilty that his brother, who lives much closer, does more for them. And also because he feels competitive with his brother. Just ridiculous in a man in his 60s. But he does love and get on with his parents.

By all your accounts your mother is an awful person. You don't have to do anything for her at all if you really don't want to.

I work on the basis that everyone has the right to make choices - but that with choices come consequences good and bad

if an older person has capacity they have the right to choose whatever that want but what they don't have is the right to be free from those consequences. So if they choose for example to live in the middle of nowhere in a house that they can't manage and the consequence is that never see anyone and the house is falling to bits well that's the consequence of their choice.

they don't have the right to guilt their adult children into managing the consequences of their freely made choices just because they don't like how things turned out

That is her choice though not to get a cleaner so you should just let her see the natural consequences of that decision ( the house getting messier & dirtier) rather than fixing it for her by doing the cleaning yourself.

I’ve always had a tendency to want to fix everything for my children before problems arise for them. But I was told on a parenting course that it would be better to let them learn from their mistakes. Your mum sounds rather childish in her insistence she doesn’t want a cleaner so maybe try a parenting technique on her!

Behave foolishly and see the consequences.

All very valid points - thank you. I think I get to the point every now and then where I can see how a few simple things would make my mothers life infinitely better - and yes I do mean better - but her utterly stubborn attitude and know it all character stop her realising as such.

Need to remind myself this is her choice.

@Twiglets1 she is indeed incredibly childish. Even in recent years before things deteriorated she’d be convinced the Waitrose delivery man ‘has a twinkle in his eye when he sees me’. This was in her late 70s.

Dear oh dear.

Childish with narcissistic tendencies?

it’s great that you have stepped back. It will take some time before your pattens of thinking about this change. Are you having counselling at all?

The core is: you get to choose how you respond to your parents. The problem is that you have been conditioned since childhood to jump when they click their fingers, or that their happiness / well-being is your responsibility. That, again, is your choice - though a hard one to make.

I think I get to the point every now and then where I can see how a few simple things would make my mothers life infinitely better - and yes I do mean better - but her utterly stubborn attitude and know it all character stop her realising as such. So what? She doesn’t want to make her life better, so leave her to it. Go and live your own life. Every post you write is endlessly filled with the minutiae of your mums wants / needs. What are yours?

As long as they have capacity, they decide what their priorities are.

That said - if they are relying on you to do these things then its up to you if you do them or not.

They have the right to decide what they want.
They don't have the right to make you provide it / enable them to access it.

@Twiglets1 very much so. Danu Morrigan helps me out so much when things get to me. I have revisited Stately Homes thread and will have a good read later.

https://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/danu-morrigan-about-me/

Thank you - I will pass this on to my SIL.

She bears the brunt of my MILs narcissism unfortunately, as the adult child living close to them ( her sons wisely moved a long way away from her).

@rickyrickygrimes Every post you write is endlessly filled with the minutiae of your mums wants / needs. What are yours?

Apologies if that is how I come across.

Don’t apologise! It’s because it’s dominating your thoughts. You are important too. Bring yourself forward, put yourself first.

their stock response is ‘we don’t want that’ or ‘that won’t work for us’.

Clearly they are mumsnetters, given that 'that won't work for me' is the phrase most championed on here.

You need to start using it too.

I empathise so much with this thread. My DPs are/were nicer people than your DM, but their dogged insistence to live their lives exactly how they want - even if that means they can hardly do anything or are overly reliant on their only DC ( that would be me) - drains any positive emotions I have towards them, except perhaps a small bit of sympathy.

I recently listened to Mel Robbins “Let them” and that has really helped me. I do/visit as much as I feel can be expected of a dutiful adult DD, and the visits are for me so I can feel like I am doing the right thing, but still living my own life. I can already see they need ( in my eyes) more, but they have refused my attempts to discuss it or come up with solutions that will allow them to stay in their own home for as long as possible. They refuse to spend any of their vast wealth on this, banging on about inheritance at all possible opportunities, not getting that I would much rather they spend their funds on themselves so I can apply for well paid full time jobs, rather than part time low paid ones so I can support them.

Sorry that was longer than expected. I have had to harden my heart and leave it until they end up in a genuinely unsafe position.

@rookiemere thanks for the Mel Robbins information- I am always up for listening or reading things to make me less anxious about the situation.

I guess part of my issue is that throughout life I have tried to ensure each new ‘chapter’ is something I can manage. For example getting a smaller car when I felt unsafe driving the old huge family car. Yes the old one was practical and had happy memories of family holidays etc BUT it cost money to run and the new little city car is ace. I love it, and it is practical for what I NEED. Perhaps a bad example but I sense you will understand. My mother was horrified when I turned up in what she calls ‘the little car’ even asking if I was struggling for money offering to lend me some to buy a ‘better’ one. Her words.

You could do shopping on line and get it delivered.

It is really difficult parents becoming more like the children and the children becoming the unwilling parents. But forcing old people to do what's good for them rather than what they want to do is really patronising and causes resentment, they probably don't have long left and I think the longer they can do what they want (before it becomes what they have to do regardless) the better, no matter how annoying it becomes. Leave them to their own ways until they ask for help and then propose solutions that don't impact you too much, like grocery deliveries, cleaner, gardener, ready meals, personal alarms and whatever else. You may have to say you really can't do it all for them any more you are also getting older, not as fit, etc. And if they are not happy about it that's unfortunate but its the way it is..