BBC today: "I suddenly realised I was running two households"

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I thought this was worth sharing. It is the first time I have seen this being openly acknowledged on a news outlet and so much resonates with discussions here.

BBC News - 'I slowly realised I was running two households' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4zzwr943o

You beat me to it. I shared it on Cockroach cafe!

It’s good it’s being talked about but I’m
not impressed with the “solutions”
they’ve proposed. More flexibility in appointment times and “carents” leave?!

Maybe part of the issue is we aren’t set up or encouraged to live together as families and be more supportive. Other cultures address this much better. It can’t all come down to state care.

@EmotionalBlackmail Ah sorry I missed that!

Yes agree. I thought the solutions were the same old things being trotted out in different guises. And the £2000 extra carers allowance laughable. There is no way most of us could give up work to care for that.

They are also glossed over an increasing demographic of those of us with school aged children.

@itsbeenalongnight I wonder if they do though? I am from a family where we have a real melting pot of cultures and backgrounds. All I see is my extended family women being run ragged with care responsibilities for often multiple generations, giving up work, having their own health suffer. It is still usually left to daughters to sort out the care. Even in the big extended family networks.

And fpr those that live in other countries, as the infirmities kick in, the infrastructure for supporting older people participate in life (such as drop kerbs and pavements supporting accessiblity, lunch clubs etc) is often not great so families become more and more isolated in their bubble.

It is easy to say, but the more I look beneath the surface the less I am convinced.

I think so too. My own Mum ended up looking after three elderly relatives in succession. And the last died when she went wandering at night and caught pneumonia (iirc). She'd had little strokes and her cognition had been affected, but Mum had a job and kids and... Well, a nervous breakdown, in the end.

Someone said earlier something on the lines of, the reality of family care can more often be the old person isolated in a room, pressure sores, infections, dies fairly quickly...
I don't think it's any sort of magic bullet.

@itsbeenalongnight if all able bodied adults work who looks after elderly person even if they are living in the same house?

It looks nice from outside but the reality is that old people live longer lives with serious illnesses now (that’s a lot of medical appointments and other stuff to keep on top of), women work more and later in life, mortgages or rent run into retirement and families with one person at home all or most of the time are unusual (because that’s the reality of caring for someone - it requires an adult to be available a lot of the time, particularly if it’s dementia). I grew up in a family like that and everything was arranged around the needs of elderly grandparent. I was determined not to do the same to my own children.

Equally, families living closer together could support each other at different life stages, but I’ve seen umpteen arguments about extended family providing childcare. We only ever used paid childcare and much preferred it that way (other than the cost!).

The carents leave thing is useless. I could take four weeks unpaid parental leave and one weeks unpaid carers’ leave each year at the moment. I can only afford to take one of those weeks - mortgage to pay etc etc. An entitlement to further unpaid leave isn’t going to help. And an additional few £1000 for caring per year isn’t going to pay my mortgage.

I think there should be more retirement villages (kind of like the American model) with different levels of care - staring with independent living (but with things like meals available etc), followed by more supported living and finally residential and nursing care available (all on the same site). You'd move in in your 60s and 70s and age in a familiar environment.

They should be nice environments where people wish to work and are paid a decent wage too.

But inevitably the fees would be very expensive. I can't see the state being able to fund this sort of model.

For those who could afford it though, it could be a good solution to many of the challenges of old age, and would reduce pressure on families. Also good for those of us (like myself) who are without family. It's what I hope for in my old age (should I make it that far).

An Italian friend told me she thought it was far better here than in Italy, as they don’t have things like managed apartments in retirement centres and so on. She is a doctor absolutely run ragged looking after her mum, as there is very little state support because it is assumed daughters will do it all

saying ‘other countries do it better’ often just means ‘women have to give up work in those countries’

Unless carents leave pays my pension contributions, then I am not much interested. My DPs both got to retire age 60 - DF got offered his full work pension to take early retirement, and had a lovely life in their 60s-70s travelling and enjoying themselves.
I am mid 50s and trying to stay in paid employment for at least 2-3 more years having taken VR from my long term job last year. Both DPs could do with more support now, thankfully as we are in Scotland DM gets carers 4 times a day. I have compressed my work hours to do 4 long days and one half day so I can go at least once a week - one hour drive each way. They have stacks of money though and could get loads of care in if they wanted, but they don’t.
I can see carents leave for a short term well defined health issue or crisis, but one of the myriad of issues is that elderly people’s health conditions are rarely like this and the more dependent they get on you - if you can take time off for a short period - the less they will be capable of doing longer term. Sounds harsh but we need to be thinking about our own retirement and care plans as well.

saying ‘other countries do it better’ often just means ‘women have to give up work in those countries’

I am sick of hearing how we should push ourselves through extensive education to get a proper career, somehow not compromise on motherhood but still maintain said career progression, and then throw job and kids to the wind to tend our elderly, all the while looking insta-fabulous. When society puts the same demands on men I will think about listening.

God I hate that other cultures do it better stuff, it's usually trotted out by Conservative MPs, who don't seem to be lining themselves up to look after their demented parents.

My mother needs two people and huge amounts of equipment. How would that work with her living in our house, me working, teenage children, too many stairs. We'd all have to move house and there's single-level housing round here, so my kids would have to move schools away from their friends and in the middle of GSCE and A levels. How does that work?

My lovely friend did move her mother in with her and it was all fine until she left to go for a well-deserved weekend away, leaving her mother with the teenagers. The mother fell headfirst down the stairs and died. Pretty traumatic for everyone. The house just wasn't suitable.

Sorry that should read NO suitable single-storey housing round here, let alone wheelchair accessible doorways etc.

Not sure what it would do to my marriage either, especially since I think my mother could well live another 10 years thanks to antibiotics, good care and vaccinations.

This article vg
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2017/05/good-daughter

My elderly Dad refused at 84 to have cancer treatment. They said it would have have extended his life by around 18 months. One of the hospice nurses said she wished more people were like him.

It's a sad that nothing has changed since that article was written in 2017

I'm still recovering from the physical and emotional fallout of losing my Dad (83) to cancer 2 years ago. He was given a life expectancy of under 12 months but ended up dying in just under 5. He become immobile very quickly, and I ended up co-ordinating his care, doing all his admin, his housework and just spending every moment that I could with him - on top of having my own home, children, dogs, grandchildren and running a business alongside DH. My sister was as much help as a wet paper bag. Then when he died, there was the horror of emptying his flat quickly, dealing with his personal effects and finances, arranging a funeral with a difficult sister battling every step of it... and Dad's family kicking off about it all too.

I'm not sure I'll ever be who I used to be before. And I will never expect my own DC to care for me, I will go into a home as soon as I need a committed level of support. Their lives won't go on hold to enable me to live mine.

If our homes were bigger, I’m sure more people would live with an elderly parent.
Families struggle with our standard 3 bedroom houses where one bedroom is a box room. No room for an elderly relative.

@Dominicus even if there is space who would look after the elderly person, or would they be on their own during the day whilst everyone is out at work/school?

Absolutely resonates, I'm a sandwich carer. Kids moving towards end of KS3 and KS5, plus Dad in late 80s. He moved into a retirement complex within last 2 years, but I do his shopping, all life admin - bills, gifts for people, ordering and collecting prescriptions etc.
I downshifted jobs about 5 years ago, to 4 days and no more trekking up and down the country.
It's tricky, just about keeping my head above water, but as I said to a colleague today, I don't want to moan as it means he's still around to do things for.

Thank god my kids are adult. They are a huge help. They will take turns visiting, do some of the tech support and just generally give me a break. I take one with me when I stay to dilute the experience. Increased my chances of deferring the stand up fight which ends in tears.

But I’m not retiring while she’s alive. She’d swallow me whole.

Unfortunately because of how women are socialised I think they are less likely to say no.

I am possibly autistic and have a complex relationship with my parents - especially my mother. I have been very clear I will not care for them. I will help with admit etc if they are sensible.

If either of them are stupid enough to refuse carers that they really need to their own detriment I have said I will just leave them to it.

If they want to play carer chicken it won’t be me that blinks first.

That might be the case when relatives are independent and support needs are lighter. We shared our home with PIL and it worked well for a long time but it was much more challenging when the time came to balancing the needs of young teens and grandparents with serious health issues and dementia.

At one stage, my DH and I took to sleeping in shifts so that we could deal with the bed alarm alerting us to a potential fall which would go off roughly every 2 hours. Knowing that we'd then also need to be up and cheerful to see the kids off to school. Juggling that + full time work, medical appointments, random A&E emergencies and trying to maintain a sense of normalcy for the DC's lives almost ran us into the ground. And that was with two very committed adults living and caring along with the DC who loved their GP and helped out as much as they could (DH and I didn't want them to slide into becoming mini carers. They were great and had a lovely relationship with GP).

I remember realising how much life had shrunk when the only time I could take a breath was when walking the dog in the 30 minutes when the carers arrived to help in the morning. So It's often not about people being unwilling, it's that the reality of sandwich generation + work + the emotional and physical toll of being hands on, competent carers for those with complex needs can become untenable. In some ways it was easier for us than friends who I've seen running the two households to provide care. In the end, it was only when my fil's health meant that he finally needed to move to a home that I realised that his care level required a team rather than two people who were loving and willing but who were out of their depth and at end of their rope. That's when the penny dropped. I have already had the conversation with my kids that I don't ever, ever want them to take on a similar caring to role for me.

I think there should be more assisted/supporting living places. I’ve had two elderlies live in those - one attached to a nursing home, the other separate - and it was really positive for all. Company, support, able to access meals and companionship but also have their own space and visitors around. Warden keeping an eye and support for lifts to appointments and getting prescriptions. Those were both social housing (although anyone could have applied for them, it wasn’t limited to someone coming from social housing). So it wasn’t the type of luxury accommodation provided by the likes of McCarthy and Stone. But perfectly comfortable, centrally located and had everything required. My two did move from social housing so it also freed up two sizeable flats for families to move into. That sort of accommodation would make a difference to not only elderly people but also social housing tenants needing somewhere for their family to live.

The other thing is residential care. It’s much much harder to get into now. Really only happens for a self-finder but in my relative’s case, chose to move in, chose the home, enjoyed a comfortable life with companionship, activities if wanted, good food etc. She went from being scared and lonely living alone to several years like a new lease of life. Again, much easier for relatives as the home handled medical appointments and prescriptions.

Thanks for sharing those articles - the New Statesman one shared by @Sittingontheporch particularly resonated. My dad is currently caring for my mum (who has PSP, similar to the CBD disease portrayed in The Salt Path) and has got to the point where he can’t really manage her on his own as needs two people and a hoist to move her. Carers are now visiting 4x a day, get mum up, put her to bed and sort toilet visits, then dad spends most of the rest of the time trying to get her to eat - her swallowing is very poor so it’s spoon feeding prescribed energy smoothies and yoghurt with as many extra calories as possible mixed in.

They moved to be closer to us in 2021, about 25 min away, so I make sure I/we see them at least once a week unless we’re away. I’m an only child and whatever I can manage to do never feels enough. I have a DD6 and DD3 - second was born, on her due date, the week my parents moved, and dad was a bit put out that I said I couldn’t accommodate mum with me while he packed and moved. Even without the imminent baby she couldn’t have got upstairs to bed - he thought she could sleep on the sofa! Mum ended up spending a few days in a local care home which I visited daily with newborn and toddler.

When we visit I want to sit with/feed mum, but normally don’t get to as am constantly interrupted by the children, who still need a lot of input to entertain them in a not very child friendly house. I feel guilty that they don’t have a better relationship with mum, but it’s hard for them to interact as she can no longer speak and doesn’t really make eye contact well. I sometimes go on my own but then feel guilty as DH then has to have the children so I’m stopping him having time to do his stuff - we both work 4 days and have the 3 year old the other day. I sometimes take the younger one to visit but then I’m never there long enough as have to rush back for school pick up, and then I don’t get my own jobs done at home. I also frequently have to take time out at work to speak to dad when he phones because he just doesn’t have anyone else to talk to about stuff. Can’t speak in the evenings as mum’s and the children’s routines clash - which has been a recurring problem.

Dad has recently come round to the idea of respite care to give him a break, but there isn’t much availability locally and so I’ve spent a weekend with mum on my own while dad visited his sister. He really wants me to do it again, and is put out that the weekends I’m available don’t match when his sister is free- but one reason we are less available at the moment is that MIL 3 hours away (who is also a carer for FIL with very poor mobility) has recently been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer at just turned 70, has one son in Australia, another whose just had his fourth child, and then us (middle son).

Sorry, thats a mega rant but I am not a good daughter or at least I can’t be whilst also being a good enough mother, let alone a wife.