Not a parent but hoping someone experienced here can offer advice

[Mounjarocaro]

I have an 85 year old widowed neighbour. She lost her husband around 18 months ago. They'd been together since their teens. Her adult (mid 50s) son lives with her and a grandson (30s) who lives around 30 minutes away. I've watched her deteriorate since the death of her husband. She is worried and anxious about every little thing, losing weight. Over the last couple of months I've seen a cognitive decline - she'll come in and ask me about a letter she's received, for example. I'll tell her it's just something to ignore, bin or file away if she prefers. She goes off saying she'll put it away in a file, and five minutes later she's back again asking me about it again. A couple of weeks ago she did this several times in the space of a couple of hours (there's more to it than this, but for the sake of anonymity...). I managed to get hold of her grandson's number and sent him a message saying that I'm worried about her, explaining what had happened that day. He apologised for her being a nuisance and said she's just lonely and he thinks she's "losing it" a bit. He gave me his dad's number for future use. We never see the son to speak to.

Today has been even worse. Her anxiety and confusion are through the roof. The son lives with her (but is out most of the time - he's admitted she gets on his nerves so he goes out as much as possible). She told me that he would be out all day and would be staying out overnight. I sent him and the grandson a message describing how she's been all day. They both replied, basically saying she's trying it on, trying to guilt trip them all the time, acting all helpless and confused. Absolutely no empathy or patience whatsoever!

We are very worried about her but don't want to overstep given that her son lives with her. I know that she's had a food diary to complete by her surgery nurse so someone else is obviously concerned about her, but just wondering if there's any services I could speak to about her (and the seeming lack of care she's getting from her family).

Anyone had any similar experience or advice, please?

@Mounjarocaro i would contact social services andsay you are concerned about her safety?? The confusion could be dementia or possibly an infection ? It doesn't sound like her family are looking after her very much x

Same as PP, I'd contact social services x Find local authority adult social care services - NHS

Exactly, you are preventing neglect, they may be in denial

I'm a community therapist and try to keep it clear in my mind when someone, especially someone with cognitive decline, has a relative living with them, but that relative is not willing or able to take on the full caring role. Because it's really tough, and even those who are good at it can be broken by it. But mostly it's just assumed that if you share a house with someone you can and will move to caring 24/7.

I'd say reporting to social services is completely reasonable but may not change anything. Worth a try though.

@shellyleppard @xmasdealhunter thank you for replying. I was thinking social services but didn't know if that would be appropriate, or too far to start with. I suspect that she hadn't eaten or drunk anything today, or at least this afternoon, which would help explain the confusion.

I think my own sons are more concerned about her than her own son!

@Mounjarocaro good luck and please keep us updated??? Could you try and get her to eat and drink something at yours if she's willing ? If you are happy too x

If she's seeming worse than usual, you could also call 111. One of our neighbours did it a few weeks back for another neighbour, and they sent a team to check on her. Is the son back?

@PermanentTemporary I think I will report it to social services, at least then if there is help available in my area I'll have started the process.

I've told my kids if they treat me like that when I'm 85 I'll haunt them for the rest of their days! 😂😢

Id take her something tomorrow, as it’s late now, to make sure she eats and drinks it. In such hot weather the elderly can get dehydrated and confused, UTIs are common and well known fur confusion so she may have one.

I’d also phone and report that youve concerns about an elderly person but can they investigate in a ‘just a random check’ type way rather than a “neighbour reported it” kind of way. And tell them that well meaning family aren’t doing what all she needs and see what can be done. Sad but they probably taje her for granted and will he shocked if it turns out shes actually unwell poor soul.

@xmasdealhunter we did wonder about 111 but didn't know if we'd have been wasting their time. Good to know that help is available through 111 for future use. The son is away for the night.

I went back to check on her around 8.30pm and she was in her dressing gown ready to go to bed. We kept an eye out and the lights went off in the order you'd expect them to.

@RentalWoesNotFun I was planning on going in tomorrow morning to see how she is. If the son is not back I'll insist on making her a hot drink and something to eat. We're a gluten free household so quite limited for something quick and easy to take in (haven't been shopping either).

Please report it to social services and don’t judge her relatives too harshly. If she is refusing to accept she has dementia then it’s a very hard situation for relatives to be in. It’s a blessing to take it out of their hands and report it yourself. It sounds like she needs to be in a home but could be refusing to go or could have passed a capacity test ( the bar is low) so cannot be made to go to one.

This is a safe guarding issue and sadly her nearest and dearest don’t see it as she has always probably been independent.
Do you know her GP ? As it maybe worth contacting them to ask if they could arrange for her an appointment .once you have explained you are a concerned neighbour,
do mention it’s a safe guarding issue about her mental health capacity and general health and well being seems to be self neglect.
Also contact Age Uk as they may have good advice. It’s great you are there to see the signs and you are being a good neighbour.
She is at risk of falls and as you have mentioned UTI’s which is a sign of dehydration that brings on confusion.

Not being snarky but those suggesting SS , what would /could they do in a situation like this ?

Just a cautionary tale if you do get involved. My own mother is similar but lives alone. She has point blank refused any intervention for a care assessment to be done - she just says she has capacity and will not agree to one. As a family we have done absolutely everything to help her over several years. Nothing is ever enough. We solve one (non) problem and she simply moves the goal posts. All of her neighbours and near family have tried. Nothing is ever right. She knows better. Social services have limited options if the person says no to any suggestions. It is horrible.

I agree with the above - BlueLegume. It is easy to judge the family of the elderly who appear neglected but I can concur that many refuse point blank to engage with any help outside of the family - this then places too much pressure on family members who are already helping as much as they can - leading to their alienation and exhaustion. I am not sure what Social Work can do if she is living with a family member as they will view this as acceptable , they may suggest an assessment for additional help via carers but unless the elderly person has extremely limited capacity, they will allow refusal of an assessment as they are deemed entitled to make foolish and dangerous decisons

A bit late with an update as been a busy day with family. I saw NDN in the garden this morning and spoke to her, asked her how she was feeling etc. She told me she was fine but I don't think she remembered. Son didn't come back until at least 1pm, saw me and DH in our garden and went back in their house. She was quiet all day until around 8pm when she asked me to go around to have a look at her belly button. She had a bit of redness/soreness inside the belly button and was worried about it. Told her it was nothing to worry about (ordinarily I would have told her to put a bit of antiseptic cream on it) but she wants to see her GP about it and asked if I'd take her if she could get an appointment. Her granddaughter in law had told her over the phone to see a doctor. I told her I'd take her to put her mind at ease. Her son was out again.

If she manages to get an appointment (are GP receptionists a bit easier on elderly patients?) I'm thinking at least I'll know which surgery she's with and can give them a call afterwards to let them know of my safeguarding concerns.

I work for adult SS, we get lots of reports from people like op who are worried about family members/friends/neighbours. We would make contact with the neighbour and carry out a wellbeing assessment to discuss the different support options available to her, we can also link with GP etc and request referrals to memory team/falls clinic/physio etc

@yeesh regarding your last post. What happens if SS make contact with the patient/neighbour and she refuses to have an assessment? From my experience SS tell me that without the patient agreeing to an assessment they cannot intervene. They deem my mother for example to ‘have full capacity’. She continues refusing to be assessed or even speak to a social worker - she is not living independently, she is self neglecting. She will not have a cleaner, she will not have anyone but her adult children do things for her. I have had to step right back because it has made me ill.

It is helpful knowing all the things SS CAN link to help but in my experience if the elderly person won’t engage what can SS do then. It is destroying us as a family.

SS have contacted me and told me if I spend 35 hours a week caring for my mother I can claim around £85 per week. They also sent me links to all of the local support groups I could take my mother to. I live at least an hour away from her. Essentially they were telling me that this was their solution. Whilst I am retired from my career I have a very busy life. ‘But it’s your Mum’ were the words a SS told me, surely you want to help her. Yes, but she won’t help herself so why should it fall to me? I have had to walk away for my sanity.

Regarding SS support,I wonder what they can offer in these straitened times.
Delivery of ready meals ?
What needs would be considered before some sort of support package would be deemed necessary.
And what would that consist of ?

6 years ago I telephoned her local Adult Social Care to raise a safeguarding issue about my DMIL, who was being very badly neglected by the person who was supposed to be caring for her. It was a very difficult situation, but I was hopeful that some official involvement could resolve it and protect her.

I was told very clearly that any complaint would have to come from DMIL herself, despite the fact that by then she was in mid-stage dementia, firmly anchored in the war years in another country and unable to use the telephone. She ultimately died as a result of that neglect without ASC ever becoming involved.

I’m sorry you went through this. The info you were given was incorrect. Safeguarding is for vulnerable adults who by definition are not able to either recognise they are being neglected/ harmed it if they can, are not able to do anything about it.

It is correct that if someone has capacity to make their own even very unwise decisions, social services cannot force them to have help / interventions.
You have done the right thing by stepping away x

Thanks @delightfuldweeb . Very early days but I am slowly healing emotionally. Assessing the damage my mother has wreaked on her own adult children, family, neighbours and friends has really stopped me in my tracks. I have another thread going where I questioned the fact that people with complex personalities - perhaps masked over years or compensated for in my case by my father being likeable and reigning in her awful and rude behaviour - are immediately given diagnoses of dementia in their later life. Little effort being put in to find out what a person was life in their younger years. Our mother has always been obnoxious and a know it all. Why do clinicians assume that they will mellow into lovely little old ladies / gentlemen and if they do not then it is dementia or cognitive impairment?

I have had a lifetime knowing my mother has clearly got ‘something’. MH maybe, personality disorder maybe, but definitely not a healthy normal attitude to life.

She has made some very bad choices in her life because she is always contrary and always wants to have the last word.

Why should I now be expected to essentially take up a full time role caring for her because of her poor choices in life. I will not do it.

If your NDN is regularly requesting your help , you have the right to ask her son what the current care situation is - are they waiting for a care assessment or further help ? Has he requested an assessment ?(which as noted above she may refuse) . How long has the son lived with her ? In situations like this it's often hard to get a clear sense of what is happening and easy to jump to conclusions. It's clear help is needed but the path to getting it is not as straightforward as we would like it to be - good luck !