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Elderly parents
Original poster

Elderly GF suddenly needing care but possible deprivation of assets issue

110 replies

ThisBreezySnake · 13/04/2025 16:57

Hi, my GF is 93 and has been living alone since my GM died 8 years ago. He has always been fit and well and was even driving up until recently.

He has been slowing down over the past few years but nothing out of the ordinary other than ageing.

A Couple of weeks ago he fell at home and hit his head, it was a small cut with lots of blood but despite my best efforts refused to go to hospital. I got my nurse friend to check him out and all was OK.

Since then he has become almost a shell of himself, he is unsteady, cannot use stairs, cannot go to the toilet alone etc.

On the day of the fall he went to stay with my Dad, they have a somewhat tumultuous relationship, neither are easy people but I would say my Dad is the worse of the two (I don't get along well with him either).

GF has another son but they are estranged and don't speak to one another at all.

After a few days at Dad's I was phoned to come urgently, Dad said GF had hit him for no reason. GF says this is an exaggeration and Dad had pushed him to his limit (I can well believe this).

GF insisted on returning home and I was going there at least twice a day to check on him. He does not have a downstairs loo but told me he was managing to get upstairs.

On Friday when I arrived in the morning, he had knocked a table over and there was faeces on the floor. It also transpires he has been urinating in tupperware and pouring it down the sink instead of using the toilet.

He begged me to let him live with me. I don't have a spare bedroom (it's me, DH and 2 young sons). We both work and boys are in full time school.

I brought him home and he has been sleeping on the couch, I take him to the toilet and he calls me in the night when he needs to go. I'm exhausted.

He is willing to have a care assessment and I am waiting on a callback from the LA.

BUT, some years ago (10ish) my grandparents signed their home over to their 2 children (my Dad and brother) to avoid inheritance taxes. This is nothing to do with me, but would that be deprivation of assets?

Quite frankly it doesn't bother me if it was but will it affect/hold up any care plan for GF, i just want the best for him ASAP.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThisBreezySnake · 14/04/2025 03:26

Askingforafriendofafriend · 14/04/2025 00:39

If your grandfather is still as sharp as a tack he must be made to understand your situation and that his living on the sofa is untenable. He will have to accept that he has to go home or hospital to get proper assessment and help. He can’t simply ‘refuse’ as you don’t have the capacity to be his full time carer. You can explain this and do this in a caring manner - but he will have to understand that this will be the best for everyone, even if it is difficult to begin with.

As far as deprivation of assets I would not concern yourself with this issue as it was not, and is not, a concern or problem of your making. Let others deal with it as they wish; you will have no impact on the outcome of the issue either. You sound lovely OP but are taking so much responsibility for everything. I would just focus on getting your GF home and trying to obtain proper medical / social care assessment and support for him.

Thank you, yes i am with you on everything you say, I think he needs time to adjust his way of thinking as its all happening so fast. I am going to broach the medical side again tomorrow and at the very least get a GP visit booked.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThisBreezySnake · 14/04/2025 03:30

Thankgoditsbedtyme · 14/04/2025 01:01

I’m an adult social worker. I don’t deal with the finance side. I just have to clarify whether people have over a set amount in savings and houses are only taken into consideration when the person goes into a care home. Care home if LA funded will be the last resort. The care act is based around maintaining a persons independence for as long as possible. Research and experience also shows when a person does go into a care home they often become institutionalised, and their needs increase significantly.

Your GF needs a care act assessment and an occupational therapy assesssment. He still seems very independent and adaptations and support could help him to maintain this independence at home. Maybe a bed downstairs, a commode so he can use the toilet without having to go upstairs. And a care call to support with emptying this. Or even a stair lift, are all possibilities, with the OT assessment will assess for. It’s a shame he wouldn’t go to hospital at the time of the fall, as this would have likely led to an OT referral to ensure he is safe at home. Does he assistive technology such as a falls alarm? This again will help him remain safe at home with security if anything does happens. Are there any grab rails in place.

im glad to see you have contacted social care needs can decline very quickly and the situation could change. I would never let your father’s situation stand in the way of a person receiving care in a care home if that was what was needed. But be aware the financial side can take a long time if they do investigate. However I don’t oversee this part of the process. This is done by the finance team and the legal team. I hope that helps a little and if you need any advice please ask.

Thank you. I really do appreciate your professional insight it's really helpful. I think once things get started I will feel better as its been quite the baptism of fire into this world for me.

I do hope to sort the medical side out ASAP and hopefully we can both benefit from that peace of mind and assistance.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThisBreezySnake · 14/04/2025 03:39

Eastertidings · 14/04/2025 01:20

Can't comment on the DOA business but I have some observations about the situation your GF is in.

Don't rule out him being manipulative. He's estranged from one DS and has a tumultuous relationship with the other. There's a good chance he was far from being Dad Of The Year to them. Your dad may be difficult, but he's also partly a product of his upbringing. He may also not be difficult at all but just reacting to your GFs behaviour towards him. Your GF so far appears manipulative to me.

He won't go upstairs because he's had a fall, which has shocked him and he's lost confidence. No other deterioration you've described, sounds like it's all just the shock of being confronted with his own mortality. He should go to A&E but if he won't there's nothing you can do about it.

Urinating in Tupperware and pouring it down the sink isn't ideal but not a lifestyle choice that's going to harm him, so long as hygiene is being maintained. Where is he defecating? I don't buy the story about soiling himself and not noticing! Or saying it rolled out of his pyjamas. So none of it was mashed into his pyjamas then? And why was it left there on the floor? To make sure you saw it? He could have knocked the table over deliberately. If it's small enough to knock over why hasn't he righted it? Again, so you could see it?

The fall could well have been genuine, I'm not disputing that, but now I reckon he's milking it, having decided he'd prefer to be looked after. He's angling to move in with you permanently. Even the "I'll go to a care home then if I can't stay" smacks of manipulation.

He's not going to a care home, without the money to pay for it it isn't his decision to make. He'll get carers at home and maybe a stairlift or else a commode and the bed brought into the living room downstairs.

He needs to go back to his own home and await the care needs assessment. If you're helping him he'll get no help. They only have to meet needs not wants, at the moment you're meeting his needs.

He can shuffle up and downstairs on his butt if he doesn't feel safe walking. You need to stop caring for him before you make yourself ill.

I really do appreciate your insights, and whilst it horrifies me to think of GF manipulating me I do belive there is some possible truth to what you say.

GF has not been the best parent from what I hear, was not very paternal to Dad and uncle and it was GM who they doted on through their lives. He didn't do anything bad per say, but was just always working etc.

When I came along GF was near retirement and I spent a huge amount of my childhood with him and GM as parents were working lots.

He has always been lovely to me on the whole and we have had a great relationship, much better than I have with my Dad who has his own issues, mentally and physically through illness.

The poo incident was such a shock to me as it was so out of the blue. It was one turd (sorry) that was very hard and dry and not mashed and near his feet.

OP posts:
Toodaloo1567 · 14/04/2025 07:46

Soonenough · 13/04/2025 21:38

I thought DOA limit was 7 years ? You say it was over 10 years ago when he was 83 . May not be an issue . Even if you had your home adapted to him I can't see how you could provide the care he needs on a FT basis . Don't feel bad if you have to make alternative arrangements for him. There are all sorts of scenarios , Care plans at home, respite , residential care etc..

The 7 year rule is for inheritance tax, not care home fees. DOA - local authorities can look back as far as they like, 20 years if needed.

linelgreen · 14/04/2025 08:36

The house will definitely be classed as DOA as if it is worth approx 300k as you stated then no solicitor would have advised signing it over for inheritance tax reasons as it is nowhere near the IHT limits. In fact most solicitors would advise against this as there would be nothing to stop your GF being made homeless in event either of his sons decided to sell the property or if their personal circumstances changed e.g divorce, bankruptcy forced them to sell. The correct way if IHT was an issue would have been a trust.

PermanentTemporary · 14/04/2025 12:07

Sorry to go back to the beginning but this does sound like cognitive change to me. If he was managing ok at home before and then suddenly cant, something has changed. There might be some good access to rehab and support if he has had a stroke, it's one of the better-funded areas of health care. I hope his GP can persuade him to have a medical review and at some point you might have to take him home and let a crisis develop.

Original poster
ThisBreezySnake · 14/04/2025 16:12

Update!

Thanks everyone for your advice. Big changes today. GF has gone back to Dad's house voluntarily and has had a visit from the GP, ambulance service and care team.

GP is satisfied with his overall health, care team have made him get up and about and have given him a zimmer. They will be back tomorrow with extra aids and to provide personal care services.

I am unsure how Dad will cope long term but DH and I have said we will not have GF back here, if things were to deteriorate then we will assist Dad in getting the help he needs for GF. Care nurses seem to think he is too reliant on us and have told him he needs to do more for himself.

OP posts:
Ilikewinter · 14/04/2025 17:57

@ThisBreezySnake that's brilliant news OP, glad the services have all rallied round and things are getting sorted!.

Lovelysummerdays · 14/04/2025 21:00

I do think people need to be careful when considering the future. I know someone whose partner owned their house and left it to charity 20 years ago with her agreement. She can live in it but now has significant care needs, the place is in a state of disrepair she lives in the sitting room, sleeps in a reclining arm chair and has a commode in there. Carers come by for 15 minutes four times a day. Honestly she is lonely and sad and would benefit from some sort of care home. Has no money though so has no choices. Having assets means you have the ability to choose for yourself.

Original poster
ThisBreezySnake · 15/04/2025 09:47

Lovelysummerdays · 14/04/2025 21:00

I do think people need to be careful when considering the future. I know someone whose partner owned their house and left it to charity 20 years ago with her agreement. She can live in it but now has significant care needs, the place is in a state of disrepair she lives in the sitting room, sleeps in a reclining arm chair and has a commode in there. Carers come by for 15 minutes four times a day. Honestly she is lonely and sad and would benefit from some sort of care home. Has no money though so has no choices. Having assets means you have the ability to choose for yourself.

That's so sad, all of this has really made me think of the future much sooner than I otherwise would have. It's definitely a lesson for me on how not to do things and I hope if I am lucky enough to reach GF age that I will have better plans in place!

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