Guilt trap with elderly on repeat - how to get out?

[roseyoghurt]

Posted here before but further developments make me come back. My 86 DM lives on her own and manages very well. We live countries apart. I am trying to sort out my life after long, painful and expensive divorce here. I started a new career mid 40s, trying to build my pension and life back on track, new relationship but a lot of struggles come with it and I do not know nor can plan what future holds for me. I am not in a good place myself.
My DM has been in dispair for over a month now over her floding and new neighbours and I know that she ideally would like me to leave my life in the UK and go back where she is and sort her life out. I wrote about this. I can not do it as at 46 it would destroy me. I have been in the UK for over 2o years and I can not even imagine how I could now just leave and uproot into the unknown where I am here and trying slowly to get my life and identity back after my traumas.
I feel sorry for my DM and her struggles and she cries to me each time we speak on the phone and I just do not know what to say. She seems to dump the problem on me and cry as if I am now suppose to solve it. She already told me she will be selling and moving and buying but I know she will fail at the first hurdle as the online world and fast paced transactions etc is not for her. She would then run to me again to help her resolve the problem she created and from afar it would be impossible. I can feel how everything around her is becoming overly dramatci to almost force me to come back. Yet 30 years ago when there was time to put relationships in place, maintain certain situations such that today I would be nearby with my own family and be of aid, there were constant conflicts in the family.
I do want to help her but I have that strong feeling inside me that it is really going to ruin me. Just when I am trying to build my life back she is expecting me to look after her. She tells me she can not cope, she has to eat her lunch on her own, everything is doom and gloom. She does not think that for her entire life she had a husband with whom she had a good life. They both had good jobs, great travels, friends, me as their child etc and naturally now at 86 yes people eat their lunch on their own. I am 46 I have no career, no husband, no children, no home of my own, no love, no future, just a race to grab whatever I can before I am too old. My life at 86 will not be as charmed as her and I will not have a child to call to cry to.
I feel like I am entering a guilt trip here and it really affects me because my therapist says to me how I never put myself first. Just when I started (and therapy is expensive) getting into grips with everything and putting myself first I get these 'I can not cope anymore' calls daily. Yet I know that if I went there and was of service on demand it would be all about bossing me around. I admit I am terrible in seting boundaries and looking after myself. Please be gentle. How do I get out of this guilt trap?

@roseyoghurt welcome and sympathy completely-you will get lots of very kind advice on this I am sure. Sadly there is an increasing ’club’ of (mainly) daughters of elderly women who seem so entitled to their daughters dropping everything to care for them both physically and emotionally. A few things strike me - one is that very few of our grandparents lived to these ripe old ages so our mothers did not have to tolerate said behaviour. Secondly their ‘elderly’ couldn’t just contact them as it was probably pre mobile era. We are literally ’on tap’. You will be advised to set boundaries - most of us know this but it is incredibly difficult. A wise piece of advice is here https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/oct/22/ask-philippa-perry-my-mums-depression-drags-me-down-i-feel-i-need-to-stay-away

As for the guilt this website is useful https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

Keep us updated. We all understand you.

@roseyoghurt I feel for both of you, and fully appreciate that you cannot move to your mother and sort everything out for her. It would most likely make both of you miserable, to be honest.

it does sound as if your mother needs a more sociable and supportive environment where she does not have to worry about isolation or increasing frailty. It is perfectly possible that she can have these things if she moves to more supported living and that would also mean you do not have to worry about her going forwards.

Would it be an option to start looking at this with her? If she has already expressed a desire to move this is a great opportunity to help her find somewhere that is “future-proof”. You could help her start researching different places then maybe plan a visit with her to check them out when you are next over.

Do not get sucked in. Sounds like she's not doing anything to help herself. Ignore the calls for a couple of days and you might learn something from her reaction.

It's her choice to eat lunch on her own. Breakfast or dinner I could understand but there are lunch clubs for the elderly, often with lifts provided. She could go and eat with other people. She could choose to move into a care home then no meal would be on her own.

The country she lives in has not got 'supported living' like here and anyway she refuses that kind of help. She is fully mobile and in good shape so that is not a problem. That is why I call it guilt trap for me. She already told me years ago that I must not ever send her to a care home in the future but take her with me. I can not take her with me as she is in an EU country and UK is not EU. This will no doubt start all sorts of admin problems. I do not know. I am on low income, no husband but a partner and I really need to look after myself. She creates a drama where there is none and I see it as attention seeking. I know my mother very well.
I am more worried about my mental health and resilience.
The article was very helpful and just like Phillipa Perry said - I would be dragged with her. I know how things are when I visit, I am 46 and I have a curfew if I want to go out and meet old friend and need to tell her everything.
I am just looking for ways and tips to stay strong and focused on my mental wellbeing because as I said I am not in a good place. Thank you for your kind words. x

Hi @roseyoghurt rather than you end up with regurgitated advice - lots of similar threads on the Elderly Parents thread - have a look through one I started as I have a similar situation- loads of really good advice

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/5179774-appalling-behaviour-dressed-up-as-old-age-it-has-to-be-addressed

Completely agree and would also add, even expecting there sons to drop everything and look after them.

@roseyoghurt

I know a man very well and he’s absolutely lovely, too lovely actually! His mother has always been vile-argumentative, narcissistic entitled and now she can’t get out as much, she expects him to take her shopping, walk the dog, get her electricity topped up (got a meter thing) despite there being a shop around the corner.

Him going round to hers once a week isn’t enough, she wants him there every day. He works full time and has two children, one with SEN. I’ve told him he needs to put boundaries in place and she shouldn’t be expecting that level of support from him - She could hire a dog walker, order food online (he could do that) but no no, she wants 47 year old baby boy to not have his own life and to spend his time with her.

The council have tried to send a support worker around to help, but she refuses to let them in. Part of me feels sorry for him then the other part of me thinks he needs to grow a pair as it’s not right and the more he does, the more she wants.

@Pinkandcake absolutely yes there are men in the same place I guess on here we tend to be daughters. What you have stated about your friend resonates with so many posts on Elderly parents thread. If you spoke to our mother she would flatly deny that she expects us to run around after her BUT she flatly refuses to do anything as you suggested-totally resistant to a food delivery but expects us to taker her food - not only that she specifies the brands she will eat and if we cannot get said brands she throws away any substitutes. Won’t have a cleaner-but when we clean ‘doesn’t really meet my expectations’ comments. Cook her homemade food - says it is revolting or spits it out/wretches. Essentially, even though she says she does not want it she is like the mother of your friend. Zero empathy that we all have busy lives. Zero interest in our lives. Will not see a doctor. Will not try and help herself. For the record she is completely physically fit-I have always thought she has a personality disorder and relatives are starting to see her for what she is. - manipulative and controlling-and are starting to sympathise.

What you might well find - most of us have found this - that whatever you do, there isn't a happy ending where your mum is reliably happy and content. There might be a better solution but there isn't an ending where your mum is happy and comfortable all the time, partly because nobody is, and partly because she's 86 and has lost her partner.

You're in touch with her and that's good. Clearly when you were a child, when you heard her say something you ran to do what she said. That's not appropriate any more - you can't, you're hundreds of miles away and you're an adult. So try reacting differently. She says she ate lunch alone. Instead of saying 'ill come and visit' or 'I'm not visiting, i have a family' try saying something like 'you and Dad always ate lunch together didn't you?' and encourage her to talk about the past.Dont rush to try and fix stuff. Maybe she'll go on being alone, maybe she'll think of some other solution. It's not the worst thing that could happen. A bit of fellow feeling mihjy help.

@PermanentTemporary that is a good point thank you. We often talk about past. I mean my DF passed away 9 years ago so for 9 years she has been on her own. She has family members nearby and friends but gradually falls out with everyone as they irritate her. She did not want to progress with technology when the time was good and my ex husband was of help and he had the patience to teach her. It was always firm 'no' and that it is all nonsense yet today you can not fucntion without it. she doesnt want a smartphone, she never learned how to send a text message but is the first one to comment how it irritates her people scrolling through their phones (including me). I try and explain to her this is where banking, newspapers, books, news, work in modern world is.
She talks about my DF as if he passed away 6m ago but I have to remind her he would have been 100 years old this year and probably not able to function and that it would be a huge burden on her.
I also discover how being the only child and late child for my parents made me the person I am. How I did not manage to live my own life as yet because even countries apart I still feel her controlling me daily. I can see how much impact my childhood and teenage years had on my decisions to leave for UK in my early 20s. How the romantic relatinships I had were disfunctional because I did not know what the right relatinship is. At 46 I am still lost. x

God op its difficult have it myself. Sounds like my mam they dont do anything to help themselves.. 80s. My mother is good for her age she def tries get me to feed into it I dont! Then strops and moods)

Choose one day per week to call her- not a Sunday so you get Sunday-night-itis before work, maybe a Wednesday early evening so you ‘have to run now’ when you’ve had enough, and can’t do anything the next day (because you’re at work). The rest of the week block her number. You’re in another country anyway, what is she expecting you to do? She needs to be ‘encouraged’ to find closer people to lean on/employ. This won’t change unless you stop it OP.

It’s really awful and I feel for you and everyone in this situation. I’ve even shown him threads on here where other people are in the same situation (generally the daughters as you say) to show him the responses that people put on in support of the OP’s and their entitlement to set boundaries etc….so that he shouldn’t feel like he has to attend her every request.

Shes always been like that though, throughout life. Utterly selfish and prioritises her needs above her sons. It’s absolutely awful how any parent can try to emotionally manipulate their own child for their own gain.

I read all the links and other threads here which helps. I have been reducing calls to every other day now (from daily) and will be further to give myself breathing space as for a month now I have been listening about the new neighbours what time they shower, how much water for how long is going and how she can not cope. Interesting how I am all scared to reduce the calls. I am 46! The unusual bit is that before these people moved in she was waking up 3am 4am or 5 am because she could not sleep. Ever since they moved in it is them who cause her awake. She can not hear a phone ringing but can hear them upstairs. I suspect she is actually deliberatley now looking for all the noise and reasons. Out oof boredom? But of course I can not say anything because that would mean I am against her. All I really do during our calls is listen to her moaning and it is for a month the same stuff on repeat. When I respond with something just to give the conversation a bit of texture she actually says she doesnt like my tone. My DM is the only person on the planet that has ever commented on my tone. I have not got a tone. I am naturally very soft spoken, quite person. That whole tone thing is her, she can be brisk and very unpleasant but projecting that onto me and if it is not her way she starts crying. I myself do go in circles here but it just helps to get it out of my chest and read others understand.
The floding and the new neighbours situation can be sorted in a very soft with end goal in mind way but my DM loves conforntation and always has been in conflict with people. It just needs to be her way and she can not accept others views. I am often thinking if there was a serious crisis, how would she react? My gut instinct is telling me that her 'I can not cope' is a trap so that I abandon my life here and be her lady in waiting there. If I did that I would lose any privacy, any dignity I have left and miraculously she would be all ok coping well. I sense she is trying to lure me in. Strange feeling I have.

When I go there to visit she makes comments when I close the door to the room for a bit of privacy or when I am getting changed. It used to be like that when I lived there. If I am getting dressed there is always a problem if I close the door to the room. I remember a story I told my therapist - I was 20 years old and my boyfriend (24) was staying over as it was New Years eve (he later became my husband). We could not sleep in my bedroom together. He slept in my bedroom on his own and I had to sleep with my parents in their bedroom (not in their bed but on the sofabed they had in their large bedroom). It was the weirdest thing. Control. A year later I moved out. 25 years later story continues. This never ends does it? We just run away and learn coping mechanisms.

I am struggling with boundaries and looking for techniques. I think I struggle so much because I am actually scared of the reaction.

@roseyoghurt thanks for taking time to update the thread. So many of us can see the ‘I can’t cope’ comment meaning ‘I want you to help me’ being a ploy to lure us in and it often does. starts with little things then escalates. Please, please do not be lured in. Some of us have been stuck in these situations with toxic parents for years and old age magnifies them.

It is good you recognise the ‘control’ aspect of her behaviour. I have found that reminding myself my mother is not ill she is just making outlandish comments so I come running, has helped me stop come running. So if she tells me she ‘hasn’t got a stitch to wear’ I will order something and have it delivered. It doesn’t really fix much but it means she has to accept I will not always get in my car and drive for an hour to hers, listen to her for an hour or more and then drive home, in a state of stress. That has taken me a lot of time but most of her moans and groans can be fixed over the phone. Is she lonely? Absolutely. But you cannot go through life ‘telling it like it is’ ‘just speaking my mind’ and then be surprised you have alienated yourself from everyone with your rudeness.

Few other good phrases to keep in mind ‘ you didn’t cause this and you cannot cure it’.

Also you are not responsible for her happiness in exactly the same way she is not responsible for your happiness.

Mantra - guilt is better than resentment.

You may feel the emotion of guilt BUT you are not guilty.
Take care and keep us updated. To some extent it is more about the mother daughter general dynamics as opposed to her being elderly.

@BlueLegume thank you for such warm and gentle approach and sharing tips to cope. You really hit the right points for me and it is very very helpful. In the article by P Perry shared by PP there is exactly what you said about guilt. Guilt although painful is better than resentment.
I never thought I will end up like this with my DM it has been a year since her mood changed for so much worse. Previous years she had her moments but I enjoyed visits and calls - the last 12 months it has been gradual progress of her unsolicited advise, conceited comments, moaning and criticism of everything and everyone. I do not believe it will improve. It will now only get worse. I am getting my oxygen mask on.