Parents have no will- complicated estate, help!

[Baffers100]

My parents are late seventies and have no will. Whenever I bring this up, my Dad becomes ridiculously defensive and nasty and claims everyone is just after his money. In reality, nobody really wants to sort a complicated estate out when they leave us, and make decisions for them.

They're very much average in terms of income and wealth etc. There's not a country estate and millions to quibble over. The complication is the kids.

My dad was once married and had two children. They're now in their fourties (mid/late). They stopped having a relationship with my dad at 18 (their choice). He paid child support for them and saw them regularly before the age of 18. To this date, my dad has no relationship with his daughter. His son pops on the scene on occasion to ask for money. "You are my dad afterall" type commentary,

My mum was also once married before meeting my dad. She too has a son and daughter who she also shared custody with with her ex husband- same arrangement as dad and ex-wife. Mums two kids are very much on the scene and we are all close and spend christmas, birthday, family bbqs etc together.

Mum and Dad were frisky buggers, eventually left their partners, met eachother and had me. I am the only biological child of both my mum and dad.

My mum doesn't want my dads kids getting anything in the event of their death. My dad hasn't expressed any wishes either way and would proably be happy leaving it all to dogs trust!

Legally, if something happens to them both and there is no will, what's the starting point?
Do all five of us "have a claim"
Do my dads kids have as much "entitlement" as the rest of us?
Do I have "more claim" because they're both my parents?

Please do not take this as money grabbing because it's not about that at all. I hope they will agree to get a will drawn up and save us all having to sort this post life, but I'd like to get an appreciation of legally where we all stand.

Thanks.

I have been through this myself OP there was 4 of us all illegitimate 1 dad all had different mothers. Because he died intestate (without a will) we all inherited equally .
If your dad dies first your mum will inheritance everything and then his children won't inherit if your mum dies first they will.
In scotland you are not allowed to disinherit a child
I hope that helps

Wow your parents sound horrible. Your dad is happy to risk disinheriting his children by not making a will and dying first. And your mum actively wants to disinherit them.

I really have no patience with people who can't face reality and prefer to be selfish. We're all going to die. The last act of kindness we can do for our families is to leave a reasonably tidy estate, a valid will and instructions for the funeral. My parents had wills drawn up years ago, and their solicitor suggested power of attorney as well. Thank goodness he did. Since my Dad died it's been invaluable in helping me support my Mum sort things out. They have also both left clear instructions about funerals. We followed that for Dad's funeral and it saved us having to think and make decisions at a very difficult time when we had plenty of other things to sort out.

Generally one will die before the other (in fact in law even if both killed in an accident one has to die first) the person who dies first will pass everything to the other. How that money is distributed on the second death will depend which parent it is because only their biological children inherit. If they want something different they need to write wills, ideally get them written by a will writer as it's not straightforward but they can just write themselves and ask a non relative to witness

Book them an appt with a will lawyer and offer to pay.
They can both discuss their wishes in confidence with the lawyer.
Tell them it will make it easier after their deaths and they can leave to who they like but it will make the process easier for all.

If no will, if your dad dies your mum gets everything. Then when she does it gets split equally between her biological kids.

If your mum dies, your dad gets everything and when he does it gets splits between his biological kids

If they die together then it gets split between all their combined biological kids.

Men usually die first so you have a good chance of missing out your dad's kids.

But yes they are idiots not making a will and it's very frustrating for you

Its hard to understand the mentality, I think such parents are irresponsible, but what can you do?

What I would do is :

1. See a lawyer on my own. Get the advice. Should be fairly clear and straightforward.
2. Report this back to parents to encourage them to make a Will. Tell them it could cause all sorts of problems and litigation down the line (costing £££££ in court, which lawyers will get) if they don’t make clear Wills. I’d have a “go” at DF for being a jerk tbh, being happy to leave a messy estate which could destroy sibling and other relationships and cause unnecessary stress (happens all the time).
3. After that I’m not sure what else you can do. It’s like you do everything you reasonably can, but then have to let it go? If they want to pretend they’re not going to die or don’t care what money goes to their children (if any) - nice eh - what can you realistically do?

Your parents are bloody stupid and going to leave behind total carnage when they die.

They need a will pronto and to both suck it up and accept all children need a share.

It only goes to the state if there are absolutely no relatives, usually people with no relatives would do a will leaving it to their friends or a charity but if there is no will and no relatives the state then would have it, not sure though if the state means the government or the king

When either of them dies without a will, the rules of intestacy will be followed. How it works out will vary depending on if they are married to each other.

In short though, your father's other children are entitled to just as much/little from HIS estate as you. You do not get more, unless your parents are married and your father either doesn't have a will or doesn't leave them anything in a will, AND your mother then doesn't leave them anything either.

I think at the moment with the kids complication they should both just have one leaving the whole estate to each other - it's then up to the remaining person to decide as they choose and make a will accordingly - even if they didn't it would then be shared equally to the children of that person , unless of course your dad wants to make sure his kids who aren't your mothers benefit - you of course should benefit either way unless either of them 'cuts you out' for whatever reason which is unlikely

That’s a very cruel way about things.

The dad knows that the mum would leave his children nothing if he died first. If he did the wills as you suggest he would be actively and purposefully disinheriting them. But with a constant air of ‘maybe I will consider you and maybe I won’t’ hanging over them.

@SBHon but it doesn't sound as if he's bothered about them-so maybe he isn't bothered about leaving them anything anyway?

@SBHon if he is then maybe the OP needs to explain to him that situation- also he is putting his wife's home at risk if she doesn't have the money to give them and no will and the house was worth a substantial amount ( may or may not be the case)

On the other side, her mum is likely to find herself in a position where she has to give them (the children in general) something to be able to stay in the house, in her house.

I fully agree with the OP re having a will.
But it’s just as much about protecting her mum or dad after the death of one if the parents than it is about ‘being fair’.

Tbh the fa pct her father doesn’t want to deal with it says a lot about. He probably feels he ‘ought to’ leave his dcs something but at the same time knows it will create ressentment and arguments.
I think he is missing the point re protecting his dwife in the process.

If no will, if your dad dies your mum gets everything. Then when she does it gets split equally between her biological kids.

Not true.

There is so much dodgy advice here. Honestly OP google will help you a lot more.

If no will, if your dad dies your mum gets everything. Then when she does it gets split equally between her biological kids.
If your mum dies, your dad gets everything and when he does it gets splits between his biological kids
If they die together then it gets split between all their combined biological kids.
Men usually die first so you have a good chance of missing out your dad's kids.
But yes they are idiots not making a will and it's very frustrating for you

This is inaccurate.

Are there any dependents on your parents? If not, likely outcome / split depends on who dies first. Surviving spouse would get the money / assets, no obligation to give anything to non biological adult children. Without a will, two kids from one or other side will always get left out

It all depends who dies first. They are unlikely to die simultaneously.

Assuming in England and that there are at least 28 days between their deaths:

For whichever of them dies first (statistically likely to be him rather than her)
Spouse gets 100% if the whole estate is worth under £322,000. If worth over £322,000 the spouse gets the first £322,000, all personal possessions and 50% of the remainder, and the other 50% of the remainder gets divided between the biological offspring of the deceased (plus any adopted if any were) equally with no preference as to whether they were from first or second marriage.

Then when the 2nd of them dies the whole estate is divided between the offspring of the 2nd to die with zero due to the children of the previously-deceased spouse.

If they own their home as Joint Tenants (rather than Tenants in Common) then the value of that home doesn't count as part of the £322,000 for the 1st death, the whole property just becomes the sole property of the survivor without being part of the estate)

THIS 100%

It is just going to be carnage if they both pop off. Me and my half brother and sister from my mums side will probably be fine, but I would imagine my dads kids will pop on the scene and it will just descend in to carnage and people just out for what they can get!

I believe that if one dies, everything goes to the other (not 100% sure on this though), but if they both go then god knows what!

Parents are married, good 35 years, and we are all in England.

Quite a judgement to make with very very little context. Thank you for sharing your constructive thoughts with us.

No he is bothered about them...he's had to live his life with no relationship with them despite him trying many many times. He has zero contact with his daughter. Her teenage son (my dad's grandson) threatened to "break your head off and sh!t down your neck" if he saw him out...my dad was 70 at the time, he's now 78. My dads son pops up from time to time, generally to call my dad a C*nt. So I understand why my Dad may think they're not 'deserving' of anything from his estate, and my mum, having seen my dad struggle with this through their marriage (and occasionally be blamed for it too)- I get why she doesn't want them having a stake either!

The gov link was very helpful- I don't know why I didn't think of looking there, doh!

I'd be surprised if they have more than £320k ish in assets. The largest asset will be the house which they were joint tenants on before the mortgage was cleared off some time ago.

My Dad has 6 years on my Mum, so he is statistically more likely to go first (factoring in his health etc too). Seems like in this instance everything will go to my mum and his children get nothing.

Even as the kid in the middle I'd have thought Dad might want to give them something perhaps? Maybe this is why he's not made a will, because my mum would likely fight him on this.

Food for thought. Thanks all.

Try "selling" making a will to them on the basis it is for their own protection.

It is unlikely (barring a car accident, plane crash or joint suicide pact) that they will die at the same time. The survivor is the one that will in the first instance have to deal with the mess of no will. There are tax advantages that can be obtained if money /house etc is left to a spouse vs others.

They each need to make a will to protect the survivor of the two - that's how I'd focus to persuade them to do it.

& don't bank on the most likely outcome being the actual outcome. I've seen this too often I'm afraid - it's expected X will die before Y because Y is younger/female/healthier. Life has a way of throwing violent curve balls.