MIL care costs

[NoHaudinMaWheest]

As the title says this is about paying care costs for my MIL.

I feel the need to give a fair bit of background in order for the situation to be understood and also to get things clear in my own mind. That will make it quite long so advance warning if you are short of time or capacity.

MIL is now 90. She was widowed 30+ years ago and has lived alone in her own owned home since. Until she was 79 she was pretty independent, driving, doing voluntary work, visiting friends etc.
She then had to have a fairly minor operation to remove a melanoma from her leg. She was assured that it was the type that doesn't spread systematically and that it had all been removed so once her leg had healed she could go back to normal. However she developed a severe reactive depression and stopped eating and drinking and caring for herself. She ended up very ill in hospital. After a period in acute and rehab hospitals she was discharged home, physically fine but still very depressed.
When FIL died she had taken out an insurance policy which would provide care at home and so that was used to hire a live-in carer to persuade her to eat, drink, wash etc. She had quite a lot of psychiatric input but never improved.
A few years later she had a fall which resulted in much reduced mobility. Since then she has lived in one room - bed and commode in the sitting room, just moving to the kitchen for some meals. She doesn't do anything -watch TV, read, knit, sew or engage in conversation. She just worries endlessly and repetitively about eg if the heating is working properly.
She has had the live in carers all this time funded by the insurance policy and her savings. About 5 years ago her savings ran out. BIL has POA and does all her financial stuff as well as managing the carers and practial stuff for the house though no hands on care. He managed to get social services to agree to some financial support and that was enough for things to continue until about 2 years ago.
At that point the care company massively increased their fees which meant that there was a considerable shortfall. Again BIL did the negotiations which meant some increase in SS contributions but there was still not enough so he decided that he and SIL and DH and I would top up - £125 a week for each couple (increased to £150 from this month).
He and DH are adamant that their mother should not go into a home. They feel that as they will ultimately inherit her house they will get their money back.
Some years ago (at least 15) MIL sold a field adjacent to her house. BIL had done quite a lot to negotiate with the council and developers so she got quite a good amount for it, some of which she gave to us and to BIL and SIL. DH and BIL feel that that means that it is only fair for them to fund MIL now.

MIL is not exactly healthy but she doesn't have any life threatening conditions and this situation could go on for many years. DH and I are both in our later 60s and both have disabilities which we manage independently now but may not be able to in the future. In addition we have two children in their 20s with disabilities which require additional support and limit their earning capacity.

I feel that although we may inherit there is no guarantee. If MIL was to require 2 to 1 or overnight care in the future she would have to go into residential care and the house be sold anyway. We are paying this out of income and even if we don't absolutely need it for day to day living now, we have good reason to want to save what we can as well as living reasonably comfortably now.

I really resent being given no choice about this funding. I am not sure that living in isolation like this is really in MIL's best interests. And all this is skewed but the fact that I have never really liked MIL - the feeling is entirely mutual.

DH is quite passive and happy to go along with what BIL says. We live a lot further away and have the DCs to be responsible for while BIL and SIL are a bit younger, in good health and don't have children.

I don't even know what the figures are and am not sure that DH does either. Nor do I know for certain what MIL's will contains.

Saying no would cause a huge family rift but it is what I really want to do.

Any advice welcome (if you have managed to get to the end of this screed).

I recently had to look at live in carers v residential home and found live in significantly more expensive. BIL might be attached to the home but it might be cheaper but also better for MIL to go into residential care.

My income is separate. But it is small and because of my caring duties DH's income has always paid for the majority of household expenses. He considers his state pension his money though. (And yes I do have something of a 'DH problem')

I have to say I doubt the “won’t eat will die” line is true. Carers won’t be 1-1 24-7 for sure but they will be looking after her and her well-being. They are used to people coming in and making them feel comfortable and settled. What about her going in for respite care and seeing how she does?

That is beyond ridiculous, what is more dangerous realistically? Logically? Severely depressed MIL being home alone besides one person checking on her here and there to hopefully make sure she eats, or MIL being in a care home with multiple levels of round the clock care/staff and other residents keeping an eye on her?

@NoHaudinMaWheest you said

they are convinced that if MIL goes into a home no-one will ensure that she eats and she will be dead within a month. While that is a possible scenario, I don't see how anyone can know that for sure.

I can assure you that IME they are wrong. My mother has been in a care home for 8 years. For more than two years has been completely immobile and dependent on carers who have to feed her and ensure she drinks. She is still alive so they seem to be doing a very efficient job.

I would never pay top up fees so I can see why you don't want to. IMO she would be fine in a care home, but really it makes no difference what any of us say, because your husband and BIL are unlikely to change their minds.

She does have 1 to 1 live in care. But yes that is very isolating as she doesn't really see anyone else except the carer with maybe twice weekly visits from BIL and very occasional ones from DH and a few friends who haven't been put off completely yet.
I think a care home would be a better option from her point of view and have done for a long time. If we get an inheritance that is a bonus but I don't think we should assume it never mind rely on it.

catofglory I think you are probably right re BIL and DH.

This thread is at least partly to vent my frustration.

We paid £5000.00 a month for my Dad including Nursing care in a Nursing Home.

Personally, I'd have no issue paying until the equivalent of the £60k was given back. Then I might feel differently.

It's all in the delivery of the questions. I think you and DH should ask BIL/SIL for a zoom chat online and perhaps suggest that there may be other support available so can we go through all the facts/figures together? Also, who is executor of your MILs will? It wouldn't be unreasonable for you (Your DH) to see that he is definitely going to be inheriting on paper which makes forking out now a bit more palatable. It is his mum at the end of the day, the elderly do need to be cared for in some way or another, so do your upmost best to not let your feelings slip out, keep it purely pragmatic and amicable.

Has anyone asked her what she would like to do? Whether she would like to look at a home?

A relative of mine got equity release when she was over 90 so there must be some schemes.

No ball park figure for the house value? Big difference between £130k and £400k, for e.g.

A proportion of her pension and any benefits will go towards her care fees - e.g Attendance Allowance.

@NoHaudinMaWheest check that your MIL is claiming attendance allowance. Might help reduce the shortfall if not.

The whole inheritance discussion makes me feel very angry in general. Spending someone else’s money before they’re dead. No one is entitled to inheritance, from anyone. NO ONE. Your MIL’s money is there for her until she is here no longer. If there’s stuff leftover the brothers can fight over whatever scraps they want. It’s very, very poor taste for them to determine their sick mother’s care needs based solely on them wanting to pocket as much as possible after she’s gone. And that’s the fkn tea.

It doesn’t even to seek to be wanting to keep a family home as a legacy, which I could maybe understand. The home will be sold either way and the BIL seems to be making decisions to benefit his own pocket in that event.

Honestly, I’d never put my mum in a care home. They are horrible places, especiallly as most people in the ones that accept local authority funding will have dementia and a really high level of need. A nice care home would be £0000’s per week but even those have their issues. I think people on mumsnet romanticise care homes as the better option for people because of loneliness, but they are not some lovely social club. Although to be fair it sounds like your MIL would be able to fund a nice home.

I guess the realt question is what does MIL want? If she wants to go to a care home then BIL is not acting in her best interest for the sake of the house. If she wants to remain at home then I think it would be difficult on your relationship to force DHs hand to withdraw the financial support. Would he resent you or blame you if a care home move coincided with her deterioration? It’s not fair on you, I would also be raging if so much of my family income was going on care costs, but DH shouldn’t be looking at this as a way to protect his inheritance, he should be only considering what is in his mums best interest. (Although it is unusual for families to cover costs in this way)

Does your MIL have capacity (and willingness) to engage in changing her will ? If so there could be a clause about any expenditure on acre from XX date will be first paid to BIL.

Otherwise, there could be a loan agreement between your DH and his brother for half the costs of care from the agreed date - on condition that there is enough money left in the estate to pay it back.

Or your DH could give his brother a signed letter saying that if the estate allows he will repay his share out of his inheritance.

In our case asking the council to put a charge on the house was a better deal than equity release - but I am not sure whether every council does this.

Do BIL and SIL undertake any care themselves? regular visits? Managing live in carers was also a lot of work for my sibling who bore the brunt of it.

If the local authority are paying for some of her care they will have already insisted on her getting attendance allowance and would take it as part of her contribution to what the local authority pay.

Honestly, I’d never put my mum in a care home

I felt exactly the same about my Dad.

But the decision was taken out of my hands by the Consultant

Really opened my eyes to the power I had (or didn't have , to be more accurate)

Consultants should have no power, they like think they do but if someone doesn’t have POA then the local authority become the best interest decision makers, not health

Could it be structured as a loan? So everyone funding MIL care is actually lending her money, to be repaid when her house is sold or from her estate if she dies - whichever comes earlier.

@Heretobenosy
Not at all the case. My father is in local authority funded care home. He has been there for over ten years (he’s now 70) and it is absolutely the best place for him. He is well cared for, is on a floor with people of a similar age/ability/mental capacity as himself. Older and dementia patients are on their own level.

He is always being taken on day trips, they do activities, have musicians/choirs/theatres come and perform for the residents. I imagine he would be extremely depressed living alone and no one to talk to. Even talking to all the different staff members does him wonders. They had lots of parties and socials for Christmas and new year too.

Sorry that happened to you though. And I say I’d never do it, but in reality there are some situations where it really is necessary, in my head I’m thinking of the times when staying at home is a viable option

Thank you ❤️

It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

We had POA but the situation was such that in the end, we had no other choice

We were determined to look after him at home but it almost destroyed us

I won't go into details....it still makes me cry and it occurred in 2022

🥰

YANBU and I would massively resent paying out £600 a month for a MIL's care who I didn't even like! Plus, it sounds like you and your DH actually need that money, being retired with your own disabilities and your disabled DC to help out. Your DH needs to have an honest conversation with BIL that the two of you can no longer continue to pay this money every month. Surely BIL can understand that you and your DH are in a different financial position than he and his DW appear to be in, being younger, healthier and without DC? I think the whole issue needs to be revisited again, with it being clear that you and your DH can no longer contribute.

I'd agree to carry on paying until the £60k money from the field is all used up. In reality MiL might be dead by then as £60k will fund for 7 years and it was her money.

I agree with pp, it doesn’t sound like your DH and BIL do have your MILs best interests at heart. They want to protect their inheritance. It sounds like your bil wants to control the situation and your dh goes along with it. I wonder if that has always been the dynamic between them.

My fil is in a care home and is doing much better, both physically and emotionally, than when he was on his own in the house with carers. It was the best choice for him. I have visited a few homes and they are not all as diabolical as some posters seem to think.