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Elderly parents

MIL care costs

138 replies

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 14:32

As the title says this is about paying care costs for my MIL.

I feel the need to give a fair bit of background in order for the situation to be understood and also to get things clear in my own mind. That will make it quite long so advance warning if you are short of time or capacity.

MIL is now 90. She was widowed 30+ years ago and has lived alone in her own owned home since. Until she was 79 she was pretty independent, driving, doing voluntary work, visiting friends etc.
She then had to have a fairly minor operation to remove a melanoma from her leg. She was assured that it was the type that doesn't spread systematically and that it had all been removed so once her leg had healed she could go back to normal. However she developed a severe reactive depression and stopped eating and drinking and caring for herself. She ended up very ill in hospital. After a period in acute and rehab hospitals she was discharged home, physically fine but still very depressed.
When FIL died she had taken out an insurance policy which would provide care at home and so that was used to hire a live-in carer to persuade her to eat, drink, wash etc. She had quite a lot of psychiatric input but never improved.
A few years later she had a fall which resulted in much reduced mobility. Since then she has lived in one room - bed and commode in the sitting room, just moving to the kitchen for some meals. She doesn't do anything -watch TV, read, knit, sew or engage in conversation. She just worries endlessly and repetitively about eg if the heating is working properly.
She has had the live in carers all this time funded by the insurance policy and her savings. About 5 years ago her savings ran out. BIL has POA and does all her financial stuff as well as managing the carers and practial stuff for the house though no hands on care. He managed to get social services to agree to some financial support and that was enough for things to continue until about 2 years ago.
At that point the care company massively increased their fees which meant that there was a considerable shortfall. Again BIL did the negotiations which meant some increase in SS contributions but there was still not enough so he decided that he and SIL and DH and I would top up - £125 a week for each couple (increased to £150 from this month).
He and DH are adamant that their mother should not go into a home. They feel that as they will ultimately inherit her house they will get their money back.
Some years ago (at least 15) MIL sold a field adjacent to her house. BIL had done quite a lot to negotiate with the council and developers so she got quite a good amount for it, some of which she gave to us and to BIL and SIL. DH and BIL feel that that means that it is only fair for them to fund MIL now.

MIL is not exactly healthy but she doesn't have any life threatening conditions and this situation could go on for many years. DH and I are both in our later 60s and both have disabilities which we manage independently now but may not be able to in the future. In addition we have two children in their 20s with disabilities which require additional support and limit their earning capacity.

I feel that although we may inherit there is no guarantee. If MIL was to require 2 to 1 or overnight care in the future she would have to go into residential care and the house be sold anyway. We are paying this out of income and even if we don't absolutely need it for day to day living now, we have good reason to want to save what we can as well as living reasonably comfortably now.

I really resent being given no choice about this funding. I am not sure that living in isolation like this is really in MIL's best interests. And all this is skewed but the fact that I have never really liked MIL - the feeling is entirely mutual.

DH is quite passive and happy to go along with what BIL says. We live a lot further away and have the DCs to be responsible for while BIL and SIL are a bit younger, in good health and don't have children.

I don't even know what the figures are and am not sure that DH does either. Nor do I know for certain what MIL's will contains.

Saying no would cause a huge family rift but it is what I really want to do.

Any advice welcome (if you have managed to get to the end of this screed).

OP posts:
FloralCrown · 08/01/2025 14:49

There is no way I would be paying anyone £150 per week (£600-£750 per month??) without having sight of all facts and figures.

When making this demand from you, your BIL should have sat you down with a spread sheet and said:

"here are the outgoings, these are the invoices which show what the money is being spent on."

"Here's the income, this is where it's coming from, this is how much is left etc, here's the paperwork to show that."

"This is the shortfall"

Then you could have had an informed discussion about the way forward.

Now I think you need to go back to the start and have a chat discussing the above, with all paperwork etc in front of you.

In one way, you've benefited hugely from BIL managing everything and taking that huge burden from your shoulders, but it's still your hard earned cash he's asking for, so you deserve to know the ins and outs of the financials before handing it over.

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 14:54

That is what I feel about knowing all the financial details though I think it is DH who needs to take the initiative and share it with me.

Yes BIL is taking on the load but he has done it entirely voluntarily and, I think, prefers being in charge.

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FloralCrown · 08/01/2025 15:01

As the money is (presumably) coming out of the shared family finances, you do get a say in this as well.

Why not invite the BIL & SIL to visit and say it's a good chance to look over all the finances, see if there's anything you guys can do to help and talk it all through together?

If your DH trusts his brother enough to hand over £100s per month, he must also trust him to be able to have a sensible conversation about it all.

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:06

Unfortunately we live many hundreds of miles apart so a visit will take some organising. DH stays with BIL and SIL when he goes to visit his mother but I am not there (and it is difficult to go due to DCs needs).

BIL has very fixed ideas so a reasonable conversation is not that easy.

You seem to be assuming that it is in principle reasonable for us to fund MIL's care.

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Findmeelf · 08/01/2025 15:07

Some years ago (at least 15) MIL sold a field adjacent to her house. BIL had done quite a lot to negotiate with the council and developers so she got quite a good amount for it, some of which she gave to us and to BIL and SIL. DH and BIL feel that that means that it is only fair for them to fund MIL now.

How much was the field sold for?

I feel that although we may inherit there is no guarantee. If MIL was to require 2 to 1 or overnight care in the future she would have to go into residential care and the house be sold anyway.

Realistically she is not going to live forever, is the house worth a lot?

Findmeelf · 08/01/2025 15:08

You seem to be assuming that it is in principle reasonable for us to fund MIL's care.

The problem is if you don’t that’s a big burden on the other couple. And I would expect arguments then around inheritance which I assume you don’t walk away from?

Dearg · 08/01/2025 15:12

Given your own circumstances, I do think you should push for your DH to get the full facts and figures from BIL.

I would probably drive this off a review of your own finances, current income, savings, pensions, assets against outgoings current and projected.
£150 per week is almost £8k per year ! Thats a lot to be handing over from your own savings for old age, or would be for most of us.

It may be worth getting a financial health check from a pensions advisor for you both as a precursor to this difficult conversation.

Autumnalmists · 08/01/2025 15:18

Assume claiming for all benefits.
not sure quite what means by negotiated with SS. There are benefits such as attendance allowance. What has he negotiated with SS?

we had to sell the home, and no inheritance if that helps.

i would definitely want to know what costs were and see all invoices and banking details.

TheGodWorm · 08/01/2025 15:18

You could be paying £9k a year. Let's assume MIL lives till 100. That's £90k you've paid. Your 2 siblings would have also paid that. Splitting the house 3 ways then would be fair.
But if you don't contribute to your MIL's care, your siblings would then have to pay £135k each (I hope I'm getting this right). They should recoup this from the sale of the house, plus lost interest.

BellissimoGecko · 08/01/2025 15:19

Tricky. You could be paying this £8k for years then in the end MIL goes into a home and her house has to be sold to pay for care costs - there is no guarantee that you will inherit.

Plus, you need the money yourselves for your future.

BIL is U for assuming you can pay and for not showing you the figures. He's also U for not being open to discussing it.

You and your h both need to be happy about paying this.

Have you seen a financial advisor to check the state/value of your pensions and see what they will pay you on retirement? You also need to take into account your dc's needs. I've would much rather pay for my dc's care than MIL's care...

Paying for your MIL's care should not be down to you. The council would pick up the tab if she couldn't afford it.

I think you need a conversation with your h, then one with BIL.

olderbutwiser · 08/01/2025 15:19

What a very difficult situation.

What's the house worth? Is there a will? Does anyone have POA?

He and DH are adamant that their mother should not go into a home. They feel that as they will ultimately inherit her house they will get their money back.

Is this because they think moving to a home will make her 'worse' (more depressed, distressed, whatever) or because they think the £ works out better keeping her at home and inheriting her house?

Your MIL is likely to live for around another 4-5 years, seeing as she's 90 at the moment.

TheGodWorm · 08/01/2025 15:25

I've never heard of reactive depression. But her behaviour sounds like my mid 90s grandma: doesn't watch TV, read, knit. She was diagnosed with vascular dementia. She took an overdose but is still alive.

OnceMoreWithAttitude · 08/01/2025 15:28

How much is the house worth?

It may be worth looking at the newer equity release schemes that are not as bad as their reputation - worth a look, anyway.

Also worth talking to the LA about putting a charge on the house?

Essentially the deal overall sounds good, as the LA are part funding her care at home. If she has a huge bank balance (from sellng the house) that will stop.

unsync · 08/01/2025 15:34

I might have missed it, but does MiL still have capacity? Who has PoA for Finances and H&W? MiL has an asset that should be used to provide for her care. When did she last have a care needs assessment?

MissDoubleU · 08/01/2025 15:34

It doesn’t sound like your DH and BIL do have your MILs best interests at heart. They want to protect their inheritance. If she is struggling with serious depression then being alone in a big house, rather than a care home with round the clock care and company, doesn’t seem very fair to her. Of course she’s still depressed. Her life seems miserable.

I think you definitely have to see all the facts and figures and where this spending is going. You are also funding this, it is well within your right to know what you’re paying for.

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:38

Thanks for all the replies.

find me elf I don't know the overall amount the field was sold for. We got about £60,000 I think.
Obviously MIL won't live for ever but anywhere from 5-10 is a realistic possibilty by which time we will be mid-late 70s.
I have no idea how much the house would sell for really. It is a good sized family home in a desirable commuter village. It would need a lot of updating but is in a good state of repair. I would think it would be easy enough to sell but how much would be left would obviously be dependent on the care home costs and how long they go on for.
Yes if we don't contribute BIL and SIL would have to pay more if they chose to. Frankly I prefer to keep the money we know we have rather than rely on an uncertain inheritance and if they did pay more now I would think it fair that they had more of whatever was left. Don't think DH would be happy about any of that though.

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NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:41

Dearg you are right we need the full facts from BIL. DH has already retired so we know exactly what his pensions are. I haven't been in paid employment because of caring for the DCs. I currently get carers's allowance and will get my state pension (and a really tiny employment one) this year.
DH's and my own health mean that we have no capacity to increase our income.

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Findmeelf · 08/01/2025 15:42

As pp said perhaps one of the newer equity options so MIL could take over funding the 8k you are paying.

AsmallabodeIsallweWant · 08/01/2025 15:44

Your husband really has to do this. Also if you have your own income, stop paying into the joint account just in case he uses your money for these 125 a week

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:45

autumnalmists yes all benefits are being claimed. Negotiating is probably the wrong word. He asked SS to update their care assessment and increase the amount they paid for care. They really suggested residential care so he had to persuade them that the current situation was a better option.

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Calmhappyandhealthy · 08/01/2025 15:48

You have choices

Persuade DH to think your way and withhold money for a lower inheritance

Keep all your money separate so it can't be used for MIL

Suck it up and hope you get a good pay out when she dies

NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:48

TheGodWorm there are two siblings DH and BIL both married DH to me and BIL to SIL. If the will states equal splits in any inheritance (which is what we are all assuming but I don't know if anyone actually knows) can that be changed to reflect what each couple has put in?

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NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:52

olderbutwiser they are convinced that if MIL goes into a home no-one will ensure that she eats and she will be dead within a month. While that is a possible scenario, I don't see how anyone can know that for sure.
BIL is very attached to the house which his father had built as his dream home. He was against MIL moving somewhere more suitable in size and location many years ago. SIL would never agree to live there though. I don't know how much of a factor this is in the current situation.

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NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 15:57

OnceMoreWithAttitude BIL did look at equity release when the savings first ran out but then SS agreed to contribute and they didn't go ahead. That scheme had to be started before age 85. Are there newer ones without age limits?

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NoHaudinMaWheest · 08/01/2025 16:01

unsync BIL has POA for finance. I am fairly sure that MIL still has capacity. She doesn't have dementia and in theory can make decisions though the depression makes it hard. She had a care needs assessment about 2 years ago when SS increased their contribution. BIL was heavily involved in that. I don't know how much his views could or did influence the decision to continue with home care.

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