What a day to die!

[cheesecurdsandgravy]

FIL died today at noon. He had been on end of life care (diazepam and morphine) since yesterday morning following a sudden decline and admission Monday morning due to heart failure and a chest infection.

practicalities and problems… 5 days to register death. Death certificate won’t be issued until Friday as whoever organises paperwork at the hospital is off until then. Can’t book a registrars appointment until that paperwork is done. I presume that in cases like this (when everything is rightly closed!) we aren’t going to add to our stresses if we can’t get an appointment booked until Monday?!

MIL getting antsy as “nobody is returning her calls”. Again, I don’t see why funeral directors aren’t entitled to Christmas off and I think the vicar is busy today…! But, I get that she needs to feel she’s doing something - she knows that FILs body will remain at the hospital safely, but it’s not where she wants it to be, and she can’t see him as (you guessed it) the mortuary is closed for Christmas! I’m deep breathing through it and providing regular food and hot drinks…

anything else I can do?!

Thank you everyone for your kind words and support. Especially those of you who have been in this situation themselves - it feels very much like “this never happens” but, actually, your stories have made us feel a lot better as clearly this does happen, and everything gets sorted eventually - although it can add a layer of stress to an already traumatic situation.

It was really gratifying to read that the five days isn’t going to land us in front of a magistrate (!) and that this isn’t something registrars etc. won’t have already had to navigate before.

PIL live very rurally - the sort of community where everyone knows everyone’s business, the same firm do every funeral, cater every event, provide all the flowers etc. etc. etc. oh - and the world and the wife feels they can have the vicar on speed dial! (I feel like TribalLeader may recognise this well!) and that he’s always available just for them. It’s been difficult to temper MILs expectations because of this - she sees these people (rightly) as her friends and that they will want to share in her grief too, which they will, but it’s hard to appreciate they have their own lives that carry on “in the moment”, isn’t it?!

MIL staying with us for a few days at least, so that she has some humans to rant at rather than answering machines 😬🙈 all the caffeine and all the chocolate is being consumed at a rapid rate by us all. Wine is tempting, but I’m not sure that will help really.

I’m sorry for your loss. Don’t panic about the 5 days. When DMiL died a couple of years ago it took the hospital nearly two weeks to certify the death. Early December and apparently all doctors were busy on the wards so nobody had time. Nobody at the registry office said a thing. It then took ages for the funeral directors to get het body as nobody at hospital answered the phone. We’ve had the same problems actually getting through to someone from the team who were dealing with death certificates etc.

Sorry for your loss,please dont stress about registration time lines.My mother died 14 December 2 years ago,Post Mortem required so DC not obtained until 9 January,first appointment available and funeral end January.
Delays caused by Christmas and NY bank holidays are unavoidable.

Sorry for your loss.

We've dealt with a death in hospital a few weeks ago. Don't worry about the 5 days thing. It's a lot easier than the previous time I did it, which involved a lot of to-ing and fro-ing to pick up paperwork from A and take it to B to get another bit of paper to take to C.

The lead doctor and the medical examiner discuss cause of death. Once they've agreed, they contact you and let you know either that the death can be registered or that it's going to the coroner. If it can be registered, they will send their paperwork directly to the registrar and it's only at that point the 5 day count starts and you ring to make the appointment. We were able to get a same day one.

For now, just get together the paperwork you'll need to take to the registrar (I think birth cert was needed) and choose an undertaker. But don't worry if you can't get hold of the latter immediately - the hospital can't release your FiL to the undertaker until the paperwork has been done, and can look after him for longer if needed.

The registrar will also set up the Tell Us Once process, which then lets you do a lot of the official notifications (pension and other government departments) online. That's very easy to do, and there's another similar service that covers most of the banks and other financial institutions. Your bank's website will have a bereavement section that will give you the details.

This is ridiculous. My uncle died Christmas Eve morning, was buried on 27th, held up by one day due to Christmas. Much more efficient than the system in (presumably) England.

I’m in Ireland too and the only ridiculous thing here is your unhelpful ‘show offy’ post.

Actually, what is ridiculous is the people that pretend to care (in Ireland) by going to the Removal, and only want to gawp and gossip. The fakery is nauseating.

Sorry for your loss

i booked a registrar appointment online before I had the paperwork

the gp then sent paperwork directly to registra

so if you can book an appointment for next Monday online, you can always cancel the appointment but harder to make one

🤔

It will all work out, surely ' antsy' isn't the right word for someone sadly widowed on Christmas day.She may well be in shock

Can I just say

we had friends who shopped around for an undertaker

a few phone calls to get the price for a basic funeral, the cost varied by £2000. They only paid £3k but one company wanted £5k for the same ( £1000 of that was the cremation fees) . It’s a time people are vulnerable and you can get a price over the phone.

you don’t have to pay more and they won’t all charge the same

anything else I can do?! Divert her on to planning the funeral. Hymns? Who to do the eulogy? Dress code? A lot of funeral directors put prices online, so you can see exactly how much that fancy coffin will cost you.

She’ll need to keep busy after a shock like that, not the death itself, but the sudden decline.

“Thanks” for your contribution, however, antsy, meaning agitated, impatient or restless is quite the right adjective - and describes the feeling of wanting to be doing something practical in a time of grief perfectly.

Might I suggest that in future, should you read such a post, unless you have something helpful or supportive to add, that this is not the time to start attacking someone’s use of the English language - particularly if in fact you are the one that ends up being in the wrong.

Might I suggest a difference of opinion, my mother died on Christmas day and the primary emotion was shock, any stress around the arrangements was rooted in distress, shock and disbelief. I find "antsy'" dismissive , its a complex situation and the processing takes months if not years. If you post on a. Anonymous forum expecting input from strangers on an emotive subject expect then to have lived experience that may be both similar yet different and not necessarily " wrong" as you phrase it.

Antsy is not dismissive - it’s a reasonable and common adjective to describe my MILs current emotional state - which is a reaction to her husband’s death and how she would like to manage her distress by making practical arrangements.

I will not be engaging with any further posts from you - It is always completely inappropriate for anyone to say or imply, on an anonymous forum, or otherwise in a situation that discusses a very recent bereavement (or even one that is not recent) that any one way to feel, or to attempt to describe that feeling, is better than any other.

I am as sorry for the loss of your mother as I am for everyone else on this thread that has shared their own experiences. I hope you find peace this Christmas, and every day.

If you say so.

@OneRubyRobin theres a time and place for arguing on the internet and I really don’t think this is it. This is someone who is grieving. Just let it go.

@cheesecurdsandgravy im so sorry for your loss. Hopefully things will start moving tomorrow but i totally agree with others about try not to worry about any delay. It is what it is and can’t be helped. I’m sure all the registrars, etc will have come across this before.

Please thank your DH for his efforts time and care. I have no religion but my heart warms at practical kindness, which the world so sorely needs, and it sounds like your DH is offering that.

MIL getting antsy as “nobody is returning her calls”.

I remember my MIL was utterly stressed after FIL's death. I'd been expecting it for weeks, but she seemingly was utterly floored and not prepared at all. It's just a lot to deal with at any time, but throw in a quick decline and sudden death plus Christmas and it makes it all worse. Everyone involved in registering a death will understand the delays and difficulties around Christmas/New Year bank holidays and getting things done in a timely manner so I wouldn't worry about that.

I am sorry for your loss. Losing a loved one over Christmas is hard. But there are always allowances made for issues around holidays. You will be able to get advice and support from the HCPs who were managing your FIL's end of life care. The fact that his passing was expected means that processes should be straightforward.

My son died suddenly over a bank holiday weekend. We had the police, the ambulance service, the hospital, the coroner, it was extremely stressful for a couple of days, but once people were back to work, we did get support and help.

I suggest that one person deals with all communications and writes everything down, and others focus on supporting MIL, as you are doing. There will be someone to speak to tomorrow. Does she know which funeral director she wishes to engage? They are usually very helpful and know how everything works.

Sorry for your loss

Since nothing much can be done today, perhaps you could help your MIL choose the photos she wants for the order of service. It would be a nice way to remember him, and to do something useful too.

Start the phone calls and arrangements again tomorrow.

Had to register a death a few weeks ago.

Can confirm, the system is now:
a) you wait to be told the MCCD (medical certificate cause of death) is ready, then
b) you go online and book an appointment to register the death.

They email the MCCD through to the registrar so you don't have to pick it up from the hospital any more.

In my case they said, "oh wait a couple of hours before you try to book" and then there were all of 2 appointments left both before 10am. Which was tiresome, as it was a 90 minute drive away. Very early start that day... :[

They offered to let us notify the death from our local registry office, but that wasn't helpful. You don't get the certificates then and there, they're posted to you, and in any case we didn't have his birth and marriage certificates, passport, driving licence etc, they were all at his house.

And it was a good job we did gather them up. Because it turned out there were three variations on his name used on official documents. His death certificate reflects all three, which will help with sorting out his affairs.

I think a backlog got built up during COVID and never cleared. 5 years ago when I lost Mum it was the old 5 day system and was much faster. We managed to bury her within a week and I was quite proud of that!

Does one want efficiency from a funeral, or would one rather have some time to remember, to grieve, to organise a fitting tribute or just to come to terms with a loss? Every society is different…and there’s no ‘right’ or wrong way to go about it. So that’s a spectacularly unhelpful post!!

Sorry for your loss OP, theres no good time but around Christmas time is particularly difficult.

On a general note to those who.might know, what is the penalty if the death is not registered within the correct timeframe?

@havalona as I understand it, having a time limit means there is a route to do something in cases of prolonged fraud or neglect - or perhaps where the institutions involved are being excessively slow. I don't think for a minute that a bereaved person who went a few days over due to bank holidays and slow responses would be in trouble.

The 5 days is after the death certificate is issued not the death, don't worry. We had to wait until a PM was done so it was over 10 days until we could book an appointment with the registrar