Retirement properties

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’ve got another thread on here about my FIL. Ideally, he would move into some kind of retirement apartment complex, somewhere he has his own space but also company and staff to keep an eye on him. Probably the option of eating / socialising communally would be good.

Retirement apartments seem to have a really bad reputation as an investment. I’m not clear why that is. There isn’t any shortage of older people looking for this kind of living space, and in theory if we / he did buy one it could be rented out of he didn’t live there. Why are they so unpopular and what are the potential pitfalls?

we’re in Scotland btw, not sure if that makes a difference.

Not sure about Scotland but here, the retirement flats here are unpopular because
a) outrageously high service charges
b) the deeds preclude them being rented out after the old person dies or moves into a home
c) because of a) and b) they are notoriously difficult to sell
d) the service charges continue to rack up even if the apartment is empty, so inheriting one means if you can't sell it, you either end up owing thousands in service charges or you hand it back to the management company free, just to get rid of the liability.

I know someone who paid £264k for a beautiful apartment. Her son sold 7 years later for £58k.

I'm in my 60s and will look for my retirement property in the next few years. It will be a small freehold house or bungalow, with no service charges, no lease, no management company.

My Fil lives in a retirement apartment - in England - with all the downsides listed above by Meadowfinch, but without the care staff around, except for a Manager of the building (organises maintenance, etc) but only in office hours. There is a communal sitting room where they have occasional coffee and a laundry room, but that's it - nowhere to eat together. That might be more "assisted living" - there are apartment blocks with more care available. My Fil has carers come in every day, and so do a lot of his neighbours.

There isn’t any shortage of older people looking for this kind of living space

You're wrong there. I work in probate and these flats are a nightmare to sell for all the reasons as per Meadowfinch's post and more. People have got wise to the shocking Ts & Cs for a start.

Richard Osman's mother lives in what sounds like an amazing retirement village but it's lucky he won't need to rely on any kind of inheritance...

@Meadowfinch has it. We owned MiL's. She was very happy there for around 8 years but then a fall followed by a stay in hospital and rehab meant that she went back with care and it was not great til she moved to a nursing home. We put the place on the market the day after she died and it took almost 12 months for the sale to go through. The real kicker was that when you sell, you have to give 1% of the sales price back to the owner. Added to the fact that Retirement Homesearch were the most abject bunch of lying bastard EAs, so much so that they ended up halving their commission due to our complaints. Peveril took months to hand over the lease information to our solicitor. I could go on...

The service charges are high because there is a live-in Manager, Careline and a lift. The Manager was a nasty vindictive person who only worked 2 hours per day and never at the weekends. When you work on a secure site where mobiles are banned as DH did at the time, communication was nigh-on impossible. Careline was good, but MiL hated the idea of potentially being watched or listened to and never wore the pendant. She did once pull the cord for something which was sorted.

They are not great inheritance wise, but they are often really good for the retiree. They get a small community of people close by, some degree of care as they age and no concerns about property upkeep etc

ultimately it’s their money and their quality of life so that seems fair enough to me.

MCCarthy Stone- what's your view? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/5077869-mccarthy-stone-whats-your-view

Have a look here. They're a rip off for all the reasons above, impossible to sell, over priced with extortionate service fees. The ones by us have a clause to exclude them being rented and there is a 1% charge on resale - the potential buyers also have to be vetted to see if they're suitable. You can't have overnight visitors unless you rent the guest suite even with the 2 bed apartments. Complete scam

As others have said above, really really think twice about buying a retirement home and the costs of it not selling later on.

There are a number of properties like this up for sale where I live. Just having a look at the service charges, they are £1,445, £2,184, £2,264 and £3,679 per year.

Although no care is provided and these are marketed as "over 55 retirement communities"

They are popping up everywhere around us, someone must be buying them. But there aren't enough flats and small houses for younger people. I'd avoid if you possibly can.

I believe there are also some rules as to the level of care needs you can have to live there. So if health/ mobility declines you are forced to move, rather than say, opt for a live in carer

You can't have a blanket view because different retirement homes are different. Jus go in with your eyes open.

Number One rule of any contract: before you get into it, find out how you get out of it..

If they haven’t closed down near you, look at Abbeyfield homes. Great places where the resident has their own room but meals provided if they want them. Sadly quite a few have closed down but it is ideal in your FiL situation, like living in a large house, not a care home.

Look up extra care housing, as there's quite an assortment available and it's a bit area dependent.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/assisted-living-and-extra-care-housing/

Some housing associations have them available to rent so you'd avoid all the problems associated with buying one.

My DM moved into one after my DF died, she lives over 70 miles away from any family and wanted to stay in the area due to established friendships. For her it's worked out well, she has communal lounge if she wishes to socialise with those in the block of flats, gardens which she doesn't need to look after and for us it's peace of mind too. She is currently fit and healthy, but our view was to consider what's important for her to give her a good quality of life and give us reassurance that there's people around if needed. We have already discussed the chance any inheritance will likely be swallowed by care home fees one day and have never viewed the flat as an investment/inheritance. At the moment any flats that come onto the market sell quite quickly so hopefully that will still be the case when the time comes.

Which is one of the things that makes them hard to sell - the market is flooded with shiny new ones heavily marketed by the company, so fewer people want a sligtly tatty second hand version being privately marketed.

Can he rent one? I think there can be a lot to recommend them if you are renting and avoid buying. My friend had a terrible time when her mum needed too much support to stay in her retirement flat, but they couldn't sell. She desperately needed a care home, but council wouldn't fund as she had a property asset.

Rent it. People move in far too late I.e mid to late 80’s and that is why it doesn’t work if you buy.

Dont ever buy one when you are in your 80’s.

Late Mum had one. Best thing she did. When she went into care we just stopped the rental.

Or if you HAVE to buy buy second hand.

You can’t always rent them out I don’t think.Make sure you read the small print. If YOU can find one to rent rather than buy Id definitely do that.

Absolutely but if they need a carehome in the future and can’t free up the money to pay for it then it could end up really difficult. Even with savings you’d have to pay carehome fees ( huge) plus service charges for the flat.

Lots of info here: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/housing-options/specialist-housing-options/

We looked at Abbeyfield for my Aunt. They have some really interesting solutions. Something like their independent living option might be a good fit. Not sure if they are in Scotland, but there might be a similar organisation.

When I said they looked like a good option for older people, I meant the concept of smaller, easy to upkeep homes, with a certain level of supervision and some communal living while maintaining some independence. That would be council owned sheltered housing, right? that still exists? Do housing associations offer this kind of option?

i will do some local research.

There definitely are jewels in this sector but there's an awful lot of crap as well. Mostly they are often nothing like as nice as they look from the outside. Beware the photos of all the communal spaces and none of the dark interiors only heated by electric storage heaters.

Being really clear eyed about what your parent values and needs is important.

I would love to buy up a whole lot of these and turn them into almshouses and/or proper mixed communities but the money is always going to talk.

I guess the reality is that meeting the needs of older people is very expensive, full stop. The impact of people living longer and adult children being less willing / able to care for them is not acknowledged openly acknowledged. The community that informally supported them is gone in many cases.

Ive been searching ‘retirement properties’ around FIL and it’s a real mixed bag. Am I right in thinking that none of them will be council owned? There is one that looks nice, really close to SIL, doesn’t provide food but says ‘The development has a recently upgraded lift, guest facilities, library and communal lounge where a range of regular social activities are held. The purchaser must be over 60 years of age and must be approved by Hanover Housing prior to purchase.’

Is this run by a housing association? Rather than a private company? I’ll look it up, just trying to get my head round different models of provision.

Hmm it’s a bit of a minefield. The various terms / levels of care: amenity housing, retirement housing, sheltered housing, very sheltered housing, supported housing, etc don’t seem to be applied consistently (but I might be mistaken) and the housing associations - just looking at Edinburgh - seem to be all over the place. I assumed they would be set up to cover a specific geographical area? And there doesn’t seem to be a single searchable database for a single geographical area?

Is this how it is or an I missing something?

No, I don't think you're missing anything - the whole sector's a mess.

There may also be council housing that's reserved for older people. You'd access that through the normal council house application process, rather than looking for retirement housing. Availability, and what it actually consists of, will vary from area to area.