Am I wrong/going crazy?

[avecmum]

I am a 57 year old woman and support my elderly parents, my dad is 91 in January and my mum is 87 they live in their own home still and with lots of help from me look after themselves. I live approximately 20 minutes away. I know it is amazing they still live on their own but it’s what goes on beneath that layer. My dad is ex-military and is very Victorian in his ways. He has never had patience and I have never had a very good relationship with him, I could never ask for advice growing up he would just shout his opinion at me. He has no means to reason with anyone, he has fallen out with many people over the years including his brothers and sister, we’ve been sat in the car when I was little down small country lanes when he has refused to pull over even getting out of the car to confront the approaching vehicle. I just remember cowering in the back seat.
It’s very much a 50’s environment my mum has done everything for him over the years so now the only thing he can cook is toast and boiled eggs. She says it is her fault. They are both so stubborn, my mum chunters about him all the time and blames him for everything, he is as deaf as deaf but will not admit it. I very much feel even at 57 I have to conform, I have known for the last 30 years it was expected of me to look after them in their older years.They have been very private with their finances it is only up until the last couple of years I have taken over all their bills and banking for them. But everything I do is nothing, that is what is expected of me. I am there to be called up on 24/7. I have been dreading winter some weeks last winter I would go everyday taking stews and food when my mum was ill. I take care of them better than I do of myself definitely in winter!
My only sibling, brother was killed in a motorcycle accident 37 years ago when i was 20 which was devasting to us as a family but my parents stuck together my mum was the only one who ever talked about it my father never did. From that day, for 37 years, all I have ever done is pacify and make sure they are ok. I have briefly mentioned this in later years and my mum looked at me as if I was stupid.I had my family within 5 years of the accident and I have always hoped that helped them in a way but my mum just shook her head when I suggested that recently. They live approximately 20 minutes drive away from us, my kids have all left home now, 2 have moved away and 1 lives close by. My father is very Victorian in his ways, you have a boss and they are the king, “get in with a good company and they will look after you” I feel and have known for a long time he could fall out with me and tell me to get out of their house which I know sounds crazy, I’ve said this to other people and they know this too.
Over the last 8 years my mum’s memory has been declining but she will not admit to this either everything is riddles and she just says it’s fine forget it for now. You wouldn’t know anything if you talked to her in the street or had a quick conversation with her. Things have been going missing for years but she will not let me put a camera up and my dad refuses point blank to have a security camera inside the house. He says “as long as I’m in this house no one will come in”.It’s crazy because he falls a sleep with his false teeth hanging out and would not hear anyone coming in. Money has gone missing too, she has hidden it over the years and she forgets where she has put it and blames him for taking it. She just says it’s fine she’ll just get some more out of the bank.

In winter I find myself going every other day or 2 or 3 times a week.I do all of their finances, take her for all of their shopping every week which is usually a full day thing.I arrange and take them to all of their doctor and hospital visits. I basically create a setup where they can live in their own home whilst they are fortunate they are still mobile although they cant drive. My dad will get up in a morning make himself some tea and toast, watch tv and go on his exercise bike and sleep. At 91 I know this is really good but my mum constantly moans about him behind his back saying he does nothing, she will not say it to his face.My husband cuts their grass and we go every Sunday to check things are ok and sit there listening to what my dad has done with his life and all about his past. He will give me my £10 pocket money which seems mad at 57 but it’s a respect thing he has done it for the past 25 years with my 3 children as a form of bribery if they didn’t go to visit him during the week it was a sign of disrespect that they didn’t want the money he would give them. It has got slightly better as they have all grown up and left home now but that is where this comes from. Over the last couple of weeks I have had to go a lot more, at the end of September after taking my mum for blood tests I took her to Emergency Care where we were in all day for 2 blood transfusions because her iron was extremely low. This all went well and we were all relieved that she felt better. Then over the last couple of weeks she had to go for another hospital visit where they took bloods again and they said she needed the same so we spent all day last Saturday sat in the hospital again from 8am to 8 pm. Don’t get me wrong they were amazing and got her sorted.She would not let me leave her though saying I might break my leg and who was going to look after her. She repeated herself so much that day and talked about her past and kept asking the same questions over and over again. I went every other day over the last couple of weeks and I just felt numb, I’ve brought washing home to make things easier for them and got shopping as and when they needed it when she couldn’t get out.She had it in her head I could claim carers allowance for looking after her but I don’t believe I can. With her saying this I said last Sunday to my mum, how would you feel about paying me a small amount every month for what I do as I’m not earning and I would struggle to get a job when they need me? I do not have a job in winter and in some ways to me it would be a little thank you although I do appreciate I am their daughter and know they believe all of this is expected of me. My mum was unsure so I said we’ll ask Dad. We went to talk to him and my mum said if Sarah (me) comes and does some more for us she said would we pay her £50 a week? Bearing in mind they get over £1700 a month pension. My dad said well I give you £10 pocket money and your mum gives you petrol money ( she will occasionally give me £20 towards my petrol but not every week) and they umed and arghed so I just said well we can just leave it as it is and my dad said yes leave it as it is. I said I may have to find a little job and I left though if I can. My mum followed me out of the house and said don’t worry if you’re dad doesn’t agreeclass="underline">msocom1 [j1] , I’ll sort it out.I was so so so upset I am 57 years old I do so much for them I know they do not realise so how can they ever appreciate what I do. When I got home she face-timed me and said don’t worry, how much was it £24.50 a week we can sort it and not tell you dad?

Today I had to take my mum to see my eldest son, this had been arranged a while ago. The journey was an hour in the car there and I felt numb she never mentioned our conversation on Sunday and the same on the way home. I took her to get her boxes of Frosties as she loves these and she wanted to go and get her pension out of the post office so she could give my dad his money to give us our pocket money!!!

When we got sat back in the car I said “on Sunday you said to Dad I would come and help you more, what more do you think/want me to do”? She said “I know you do a lot for us”. Although she forgets a lot, she remembered the conversation on Sunday. She started crying and put her head down and I was really upset too that I had upset her but when I looked she wasn’t crying at all, like a child gets upset as if for show.She said “if it’s better for you, get a job” I feel utterly worthless, im not even worth £24.50 a week to them they must have discussed it. I said I feel worthless and she snapped at me “thank you very much, all I have done for you”We have never argued, and I have always picked her up when she’s down which is a lot of the time. She used to get carers allowance for looking after my Grandma and my Grandma paid her to help at other times in her life. She says my dad has said he is going to live until he is 100 and she says if you are that determined then you will. I hope he does and he is very happy but I just know at the rate we are going this will break me. I just do not understand their side of things, please enlighten me I am totally in the wrong here, maybe I am, I don’t know anymore.
class="underline">msoanchor1 [j1]

Massive hug to you. I thought I had complex parents which I cared for but you have so much more to deal with. The only advice I can offer is to involve others. You can not do this alone.

Develop ‘instant Covid’ tomorrow and give yourself an immediate break. You need some space to put a plan together. 💛

Carers allowance is a pittance, but it sounds as if you may well be doing enough for them to meet the 35 hours a week threshold. So you could claim if you're not working and if they get attendance allowance.

I very much feel even at 57 I have to conform, I have known for the last 30 years it was expected of me to look after them in their older years.

Your relationship with them sounds very intense. How do you feel about the statement above? Is it something that you want to change? In other families, adult children are able (to varying extents) to choose how much involvement they have with and how much support they give to their ageing parents. Do you want to continue to have the level of involvement that you currently have?

You want to understand their side of things? it sounds like they have trained you from birth to be their servant and . You are constantly trying to keep them happy, at your own expense (literally it turns out). It’s not really the money, is it, it’s what it represents.

You say you’ve never argued with your mum (and I bet you’ve never dared to argue with your dad) like it’s a good thing: it isn’t. If you never argue with someone, how do you learn to stand up for yourself? Or to set boundaries and stick to them? Or to handle conflict, and then resolution afterwards?

What life do you have outside caring for your parents? do you have friends, hobbies? Have you worked in the past? What does your husband think of your parents and how much you do for them?

It’s never too late to change things OP, but it’s not easy.

@avecmum huge hug for you. You have made the right decision to post your very complex situation on here - you will get some excellent advice from people who have walked in similar shoes. You cannot keep doing what you are doing it is unsustainable. I was recommended https://www.mobiliseonline.co.uk - there might be something in your area that can help? Sending hugs and please do keep us updated. Some amazing people on here who will have the right language to help. Another good online resource is understanding Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this and your kind words it does help me and i know others must be going through similar times. It was very much a 50’s environment, although it was in the 70’s. It was happy but I could never talk to my dad, he would just shout is opinions at you, there was no closeness there and it was his way or no way. I just new you had to be the good nice girl, and do as you were told. I think mentally it changed for me after my brother died, they suffered so much pain I felt i had to be their for them ( I was 20 at the time) not in massive I will save you way but just quietly in the back ground. I never rocked the boat. My husband is the kindest hardest working man but I think he is struggling with things now. He says he just lets my dad talk and nods every so often to agree or disagree with him.When my mum was in hospital on Saturday because it was getting late I had to ask my husband to go round and tell him what was happening because he would worry. He cannot hear the phone and if he did he would just shout at the top of his voice at me down the phone. My husband said my dad said my mum has dementia and it is getting worse and he talked about what my mum had done at home recently. It is so weird he has spoken to my husband on occasions before about this but he will not talk to me about it!I know she has dementia or a similar illness but she would never admit it, she would get nasty before that. She blames my dad (behind his back) for everything at home that is going missing, she says he will leave the doors open and people are getting in but who would take teaspoons and her pop socks!. She says it is him who is making her go mad! She would get nasty with me before admitting she has a problem. I struggle to understand why he would talk to my husband, this has been going on for years definitely since covid but not as bad and he has not spoken to me only my husband. As if you can talk to a man but women are a lesser figure as if in the 50’s or in some way he thinks he is protecting me. I have struggled all of my life with self esteem, but you learn to hide it so very well. For years I have told myself I am nothing and I know this is all related, the only thing that has helped really is in this age we are in now where we do have more information on self help and how things affect you. I think it is just worse in the last few years because it is becoming clear they do just expect so much of me and other people my age don’t have this relationship with their parents.I have phone calls at 8 pm at night "oh Sarah I cant find my hand bag" and because she is panicing we have to drive through and find it for her, usually under a cushion or i get a phone during the day someone has been on the phone and said they are taking money out of my account and i have to try and call her bank but they wouldn't speak to me and the kind gentleman from the bank rang her and told her it was a scam. It's the fact i have to drop everything there and then and sort their problem out and i know this isn't totally dementia related because this has been going on for a number of years. I was made redundant in 2019 and then got another full time job for just over a year and I manned the office during covid being the only one going in as my colleagues had small children. I did enjoy it cause I could just get on and in my small way I was helping while others had such a harder time. I left in 2021 as it was becoming too much and it has all got worse since then really, my time is their time and anyone else's. When i left things weren't as bad with my parents as they are now and in some way i thought i could be there for them during the day if they needed me. I put this to my mum yesterday and she acted totally shocked and in denial as if throwing that kindness back at me 'What when you left that job you thought you could be there for us"!!!! Every morning mum will facetime me (I know one day I will miss this) but she will sit there and I know straight away by her expression what mood she is in. “Good morning, I’m not very happy today” and I have to tell her it’s going to be sunny later or something to try and lift her mood. I think this is where if I have had to go out I would say do you want to come for a ride, just to get her out of the house but she never saw that, but why should she really. I just don’t know who to talk about it all and it gets a lot, it becomes all consuming and I know others have it hard too.

Cut the visits back to once a week and they can pay someone else to do everything you do.

Sending hugs💐

Get them a care assessment and yourself a carer's assessment.
Set some limits like visiting only twice a week, not going round to look for lost handbag.
Give yourself a fun creative project and set time aside for yourself at least once a week.
Take it from there.
Good 🍀 luck

This sounds horrendous. I'd cut right back on the visits and look at getting some external help in.

Also, do you have enough years of NI credits to get the full state pension? Do you have a pension from when you were working? You don't want to wreck your own future with your husband by running around after your parents.

My heart goes out to you. “Just say no” is easy advice to give, but if it was that easy to do you’d have done it already. They’ve really done a number on you, haven’t they?

Most people do not have it hard. Most parents are not like this. This is not healthy or normal and it certainly isn’t loving or fair. I don’t know how many times you wrote “I have to…” in your posts.

Can you get some counselling? Try Relate if funds are tight. Look up FOG - there are lots of threads here about it, Fear Obligation Guilt.

In the meantime, can you put some tiny boundaries in place and see what happens? Eg handbag dramas - don’t rush over, tell them you will go tomorrow.

If you are looking after their finances then I hope you have LPA, and have third party access for their bank accounts?

Your parents are not going to change OP. The only person who can change what you do in response to them is you.

Have you ever had any counselling or therapy? That would probably be the right person to talk to about this if you want things to change.

Why do you always set your own unhappiness against that of others ‘who have it hard too’? Other people being in unhappy and exploited situations doesn’t somehow negate your own.

have you seen the Stately Homes threads in the Relationship board? You might find some help there.

You sound like my SIL, who has suffered from anxiety and depression all her life. Her parents did a number on her too. They taught her never to draw attention to herself, that she was less important than anyone else, that her needs (if they existed at all) were of zero importance. She too talks about all the things she ‘has’ to do. 🤷‍♀️ why ? There’s no gun at her head. But her terror of confrontation and sub-zero self esteem means it’s less scary to carry on being miserable and ground down than it is to learn to stand up for herself or put herself further up the pecking order.

DH is similar but nowhere near as bad. I can see he gets a shock when I say ‘No, I’m not going to do that’ to him as he’s grown up with people who were totally unable to set boundaries with family members.

This sounds really hard and you have obviously been conditioned to serve them at the detriment to yourself and have completely lost your sense of identity.

I would definitely get care assessments and try to get some other help. Would they accept a cleaner at least??

The other point I took from your post is to use the fact that your Dad values males more. Get DH to talk to him about anything important - it takes a tiny bit off your plate but also means your Dad is more likely to be receptive to it. Get him to suggest the care assessment / cleaner for example.

I'd not fight this (horrible) sexism of your Dad's but make it work in your favour.

Crikey OP this breaks my heart.

You're entitled to have a life of your own!

Don't get me wrong, I am happy to help my dad out but not at the detriment of my own life.

I would suggest you start by looking for a job, any job. At the same time, look for services locally to your parents that will be helpful to them - a cleaner, a meals ordering service etc. Sit them down and explain that you need to work so they'll have to have this paid help (I realise this might be difficult as you've been conditioned to serve them, especially your dad by the sound of it)

Could you get some therapy to help you get through this? Maybe speak to your doctor if you can't afford to pay for any, I'm sure there is a free talking therapy service (over the phone I believe) that's available via the nhs.

Maybe speak to Age Uk, see if they can offer any support or advice?

@olderbutwiser yes I too picked up one the "I have to..." theme. You know you actually don't have to.

OP you can't keep this up - your mum will only get worse as will your dad eventually but this could be years yet. I'm not one to condone lying but actually an instant dose of Covid isn't a bad shout - give yourself a few days breathing space & be too ill to even manage Facetime. Let you DH take over communications for a few days as I'm sure he has better boundaries and wont be running over there (in fact make this a pre-requisite that neither visit for at least 3 days) . You need to get in paid help and take a step back - one mid-week visit plus your regular sunday are more than most people manage so no need to feel guilty. I would also suggest you use the time away to find your self some therapy to unpick what sounds like an emotionally lacking childhood and hopefully help you instil some proper boundaries and start asserting yourself more.

For anyone is a similar situation at least make sure you claim carers credit. This won’t give you money as such but it will make sure you get National insurance credit towards your pension. It’s for people supporting people for 20 hours a week or more. It can be backdated a bit as well. Details from Martin Lewis online as I can’t remember exactly how far back it can be backdated but it was abt to the previous tax year. The form doesn’t affect the finances of the person you are caring for and it’s a simple form to fill in.

I could have written your post and only have sympathy, but unfortunately no advice. I was a whipping boy for mother for 70 years. My lovely dad died at 50 and she quickly remarried a man as awful as her. So when she died at 94 I still had another 5 years of my life sentence to serve. I wish I could do more for you.

It sounds like you have very good insight into who your dad is and that he is never going to change.

Has your mum had a dementia diagnosis? Has her memory ever been mentioned at any of her hospital appointments? It's easy for doctors to miss as she won't mention it and they are just focusing on their bit.

If she hasn't got a diagnosis she needs one.

I would not expect her to accept or remember the diagnosis as she won't be aware she has a memory problem. I'd also massively lower my expectations of her being able to understand or recall the impact her needs have on you as she just doesn't have the mental ability to do it.

Goodness op, they've done a number on you haven't they?

This is going to sound mean, but I'm going to say it anyway because I don't think you realise how passive you are. Why on Earth are you not respecting yourself more? Well obviously it's because your parents never have, but you can't beg them to change now. You've got to stand up for yourself and put some boundaries in place. There's a very strong link between this sort of passive behaviour and illness so find your anger.

You've only stood up for yourself (very slightly to say the least!) once and you saw the reaction from your mum. Crocodile tears and blaming you. That's classic covert narc behaviour but maybe it's a coping mechanism to deal with your father who's clearly a narcissist. I'm carer for my covert narc mother and I don't stand for any nonsense but it's still hell.

My advice would be to quietly withdraw your help. You're never going to win any arguments against your dad, with your mother enabling him and backing him up.

Thank you all soooooo much for your advice and words of wisdom. Every reply has made sense to me. It has given me sooo much more strength I am going to focus on putting some boundaries in place and keep my distance a little. I just have to add I have had a face time call from my mum this lunch time and luckily my daughter was in the kitchen to just to hear what was said and the going on. My mum asked if i was ok and was i going away this weekend, she'd got mixed up and i said no i don't go away until December for 2 days. She shouted across to my dad are you going to tell her. My dad started shouting, "are you listening, we are going to give you £1000 will that mean you don't have to get a job"? "Only if you dont waste it though when you go away" "You had better now waste it". I got a bit upset and said i do not waste money I look after it as i do with yours (I am the one that does all their banking now!!). My daughter heard him shouting he was saying "I am different I look after money and if you don't waste it we will give you £1000 next October". I am very grateful for the money and the extra help but somehow it comes with message you are still at our beck and call whenever we need you and if you do not respond then you have disrespected us cause we gave you this money. It is just sooooo strange, I am 57 years old and they speak to me as if i was 13!!!! I don't think they will change will they, it is only me that needs to change and although i try I have to try and block how they speak to me in my head. I feel a bit more settled though reading your replies they have helped more than you will ever know!!!

I know it sounds crazy but I still do feel it sort of keeps me small and less than if that makes sense the opposite to empowering someone although i am very grateful for the money don't get me wrong.

No, definitely not empowering, rather the opposite!! I wouldn't be grateful for the money you are getting next October! Really, as a PP said they have done a number on you and are now blackmailing you with this 1k next October which I doubt will actually materialise. You need to step back emotionally and physically. They are dumping everything on you, it's so unfair.

Is that £1000 per month or £1000 as a one-off they're dangling in front of you? Either way, you'd be better off having a job even at minimum wage, getting some nice colleagues, pension and NI contributions and a great excuse not to have to be at their beck and call!

I found it helpful as looking at it as increasing their resilience. They're completely dependent on you. That isn't sustainable. You can't guarantee being fit and healthy for years to run around after them. You could catch Covid or flu or break a limb or have a stomach bug. What happens if you want a holiday or one of your adult children wants your help one weekend?

The current Covid guidance says to avoid contact with vulnerable people for 10 days if you test positive. That means you wouldn't be able to go near them for about a fortnight. If they have external care and support in place then they are more resilient and it wouldn't be a crisis situation if you're not available. So you'd actually be supporting them better?

I'd recommend catching Covid or "Covid" as soon as possible!

@CharlotteLucas3 has nailed it.

They have never transitioned to having an adult to adult relationship with you and still treat you like a naughty school child.

They make you feel very guilty, small and about 5 years old - despite the fact you are a successful adult woman and by the sounds of it, a far superior parent yourself.

Hang onto that! While you won't change your dad it is OK just to respond to him with an internal eye roll and shrug.

Sorry i meant they said they will give me £1000 this october now and if i dont waste it the same next year in october 2025.