Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

My mother refuses to engage with any tech, apps, online stuff because when it first come out she couldn't work out how to register for something online and has refused to ever try again.
This is making life more and more difficult because so much is online or uses apps.
This means that if she wants to get anything she has seen online, she wants one of her children to order it. She goes to the bank, gets the money out, and gives it to them in cash. This is annoying when it's a small purchase, but if it's something larger, then you have to go to the bank yourself to deposit the cash to cover your own direct debits.
She won't even let you use her card to order it as she "doesn't trust websites/she might mess up and lose her money"
She won't use live chat to access customer service, insists on phoning (which is usually awkward and difficult because firms aren't set up for that) then gets pissed off she is talking to 'a foreigner'
Everything takes 5 times longer and more difficult than it needs to be.

@reesewithoutaspoon yes to making things over complicated. Our mother trots out a series of phrases and always has which are veiled excuses to make sure we have to physically turn up to help out. Covid lockdown was bliss for me as I couldn’t. On the one occasion we were celebrating something at a distance - we had agreed to stand at the end of the driveway - when we got there she made it clear we were to go in the house, which broke the ‘rules’. DH was absolutely furious but as we didn’t want a scenes we sat with masks on at the opposite end of the room. She as ever controlled the narrative.

The thing is is its deliberate incompetence and it pisses me off. Because if she gets a new washing machine it's working within an hour, so she is not stupid, it's the absolute refusal to even try like it's some badge of honour that she doesn't use tech.

@reesewithoutaspoon it’s called ‘selective competence’!!! I won’t not I can’t in my mothers case.

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/selective-competence

Parents of both sides have trotted out the ' don't want it looking like an old folks home'.
One ended up lying on the bathroom floor, semi naked for four hours when a seat and a handrail could have avoided that.
The other lot, pride themselves on buying a bungalow in 1970 which has been DIY bodged and furnished like a Victorian drama. Small rugs, weaving past tables covered in dusty Knick knacks.
I have an architect coming to discuss our extension, I'm 50 and I want to build this bloody thing so when I have a skiing accident, or grand children or get old the place is robust and helpful without adaptations.
Suggestions please
Robust towel rails that can double as grab rails
Handrails either side of the stairs
Wide doors, corridors for that sense of space
Ground floor bathroom & flexible rooms that could be a bedroom or a living space.

You don't need to put it all in now, as long as there is somewhere obvious to out things like handrails. If you're doing anything structural then think through to make the most of the oppprtunity.

We did a house renovation of a wreck, aiming to future proof it, despite still having a child at primary school! We went for wider than normal doorways. We were getting new doors anyway and doing some structural work so this made sense. So downstairs a wheelchair can easily get in and out of all rooms. It also made it a lot easier to get the new sofa in!

Had whole house rewired so light switches and plug sockets are all at accessible height.

Downstairs large toilet and shower room with space to manoeuvre inside. We haven't done a wet room as reasoned that it could end up needing replacing before it was needed to use. But the key thing is plumbing in the right place and enough space. A lot of houses with downstairs loo/shower it's very compact.

Banister rails both sides on the stairs.

Space downstairs that could be used as a bedroom, with plenty of sockets should hospital bed or equipment need plugging in.

There isn't level access to the front door but it would be very easy to make it so.

@HoraceGoesBonkers love it speaking in the clicking language, new realms of feckwittery isn't it x And yes to the dismissive meeting, vile behaviour x

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas sounds a really good technique to try, thankyou

@reesewithoutaspoon yes to the not trusting things/people. My dad refuses to use a cash line machine. Won't pay for things online despite unfortunately being very good with tech, floods FB with shite.

It is weaponised incompetence or learned helplessness. Definitely an attention seeking maladaptive behaviour that works fabulously!

Yes @Septoctwed to no adaptations. Refuses a walking stick, rails, showerstool. Because D of course at 86 is going to get better.

M fell and broke her wrist and D dragged her by the ankles through the house. It is horrific and reckless isn't it. All about image D said what would people think if they saw him with a stick. Far better to fall. Impossible x

We have had the whole no to the decent stable stick in case anyone saw but yes to the taxi because he ended up sat on a central London pavement.

I do remember when my friend at primary school got crutches and having a go on them made play the so much more fun. I hope to embrace the aids as I age with that joyful spirit.

@Lexy70 I literally groaned at your ‘going to get better’ comment. Father given a diagnosis of Parkinson’s 4 years ago. Mother utterly refused to make any sensible adaptations to the house just to help him really. She had a mindset of ‘well I give him his medication exactly when he needs it so he will stay as he is’. She refused to look into Parkinson’s in older people to get an idea of how it progresses. Even now she says ‘well he told me he would get better’.

I have pointed out has she ever known anyone in their 80s ‘recover’ from Parkinson’s and she spews out a fabrication of ‘yes I do actually, Mrs So and So’s husband’. All lies but she loves to control the conversation.

@Septoctwed crazy isn't it.

@BlueLegume hideously familiar. She won't let him be ill or old. He has got to sparkle and drive her places. Your M saying he told her he would get better is a new level of denial isn't it. He isn't allowed to be ill and old.

As to the house, I just want to build in some sturdy towel rails to grab when you feel whoozy.
My dad ripped a flimsy one off the wall. The in-laws have nothing which even years ago when heavily pregnant took some negotiating.
I'm aspiring to design for life not last-minute.

@Lexy70 oh absolutely. Over the past 20 years I realised he had become useless to her. She spoke to him appallingly. She still sees herself as the cool girl everyone fancies and adores. She is so immature and always has been. She even took credit for my kids turning out well academically saying they had clearly inherited her ability and brains. Ermmm no - they worked damned hard.

I am bereft at knowing my mother in particular thinks it is acceptable to treat us as she has and continues to do.

I suspect she doesn't even think about it in those terms. Probably doesn't even occur to her that her behaviour is anything but quite normal.

It sounds as if she has been pandered to her whole life despite her behaviour. She's not going to change now as you all are still pandering to her and letting her call the tune and get away with it.

You must deal with your own response to her behaviour. You can control that. Why do you feel guilty? Do you believe you have any reason to feel guilty?

Wow! This makes so much sense, thank you for posting the link.

We definitely had a severe case of ‘selective competence’ and it’s actually rather reassuring that it’s a formally recognised issue.

I often believed mother was just mentally lazy. Was never interested in engaging with what didn’t suit her, even if it was of direct benefit to her but she definitely wasn’t stupid or incapable. She liked playing on the helpless, daft old lady role to get others running around for her. Because I lived 2 hours away from her and couldn’t regularly take her shopping, I set up an online supermarket delivery account, but she wouldn’t use it and moaned endlessly about desperately needing supplies and when was I coming to get them? I ended up ordering for her because it was easier, which in hindsight enabled her further.

She was an avid Daily Mail reader because I think she liked to be fed information that suited her narrative. She wouldn’t or couldn’t stand back and be objective. If the Mail reported something, it was an indisputable fact. She would also repeat gossip or information that was clearly very inaccurate, far fetched and blatantly untrue about neighbours and friends rather than thinking logically about the reality of whether it really happened or the consequences of her spreading malicious comments. Over the years I pointed out that certain stories she had related made no sense and were very slanderous, but she was always unrepentant and defended herself by saying that’s what she had heard and she was sticking to it.

I think it was the lack of empathy that I always found the hardest. She couldn’t see that things she said were hurtful. It was always people being “over sensitive” or “not handling the truth”

@unsync spot on. She bemoans ‘I just can’t cope’ whilst doing absolutely nothing sensible that is suggested. She wallows in drama. The reason she has zero coping mechanisms is because rather than learning to ‘cope’ with hiccups in life she always kicked off until she got her own way.
You are absolutely correct about how I choose to respond being my responsibility. What I despise though is the venom from our brother who seems to think there is some kind of competition on for “who cares the most”. Thanks though I do need to be reminded of the points you made. 🥰

I know i've posted bits and pieces about this before but we had the thing with the adaptations. They were offered money to adapt their house. Rather than just getting it done my mum moaned to my sister about just wanting to enjoy her garden. Their house has plenty of garden space.

Meanwhile my Dad was falling over the steps when he tried to get into the house.

My DH offered them an alternative design that still complied with building standards. Rather than just agreeing to it my Mum rather gave the impression of lapping up the attention she was getting by not installing the ramp and kept uhming and ah-ing about what to do next while I kept asking her to install one.

My Dad then had a bad fall which set of a whole terrible chain of events and meant he got covid, completely lost his mobility, was in hospital for months with subsequent mental decline.

After he fell my Mum was suddenly able to sort out the ramp really quickly. I did say I thought the ramp should have been installed faster but "let's not talk about that at this time". All this suffering for Dad and stress everyone else because she didn't want to lose a small fraction of garden space.

Rather than getting one that complied with building standards which would have been installed for free, she got a really steep af one for six grand that the builder advised her not to and made her sign a disclaimer for, and that's clearly another fucking drama in the making whenever she decides to move (because I'd bet my mortgage on her suddenly not understanding what she's done then).

When I had the row with her a few weeks back she denied there was anything wrong with her decision making process and she couldn't have done anything faster or better.

Its not that people can make one off mistakes in bad circumstances, it's the ongoing refusal to accept any responsibility or change her attitude that's infuriating.

I can 100% see history repeating when her mobility starts to go and her refusing adaptations but I just don't want to do it all again.

Oh lord, and the crap things in the house reminds me that they could bizarrely be very reluctant to spend money on anything that wasn't used to impress people.

Years ago they got a really cheap toaster that only fitted tiny bits of bread.

It didn't actually toast and the tiny bits of bread would sit in the toaster for ages then pop up, barely warmed up.

It had a button for "turbo mode" which did actually make the toaster work normally.

But if you used it then the toaster would then be exhausted and refuse to work for quite a long time afterwards.

They ended up throwing out Turbo Toaster and getting a normal toaster that did actually work.

I really want to scream. Mine is so self-obsessed she'd totally forgotten (or maybe never absorbed the information) that I'll soon have an operation. And as soon as I reminded her she launched straight into the health problems of the neighbours!

It was the weirdest phone call. She had a friend there and it was like she was acting out a conversation for the friend's benefit. She'd pretended I'd asked after the friend's family. I'd say one thing and she'd then "repeat" something entirely different to the friend in the room?! It was all a performance.

I feel like I'm going mad!

My mum has special telephone voice if there's an audience. She 'll also say random stuff that she rewrites to give a better emotional impression.
Septoctwed keeps asking after you...would you like a word? Cue some puzzled neighbour I've never met.

@EmotionalBlackmail I hear you loud and clear. The ‘acting’ has always happened and I have often thought, with some therapy I may add, that my mother has a personality disorder. With no ‘audience’ now she is a hollow shell with no sense of self at all. We have witnessed the highs of her behaviour where she seemed to be playing to a television camera in the house, like she was being filmed for a TV sitcom. We are now witnessing the lows where she perfomatively plays the sad old lady standing in the window so people can see her. It may be an unpopular view but I can see with hindsight this is how she has always behaved. I remember a home economics class where we had to invite our family in and make a buffet type meal. Mine arrived late and walked down the room as if it was a catwalk, sunglasses and floppy sunhat in a dramatic style as if she was on Dynasty.

On a sadder note she really doesn’t seem to have a personality of her own. Everything has always been copied from others. Her accents, her sense of style, her opinions. Scream away, I am as I have no option but to step up next week as my siblings have other commitments.

I'm laughing at the phone comment. Mine does it too. She will be on the phone overacting then suddenly thrust it at me and say "its random neighbour you met once when you were 2, say hello" que a weirdly stilted conversation with a complete stranger.

Mine won't make me speak to people on the phone (apart from phoning me up at random times putting my Dad on who can't actually speak).

She did do this weird thing where it was almost like following a script of things she was going to repeat. After I got a lot more guarded in what I told her, she'd announce things like "the children are doing well at school" and "your work is going well" before I've mentioned anything, and it started to feel like a tick box exercise of her making statements that she could then repeat to her friends.

@HoraceGoesBonkers interesting isn’t it? My assessment is they need these phrases not to express their pride in us/kids etc they want to use them to elevate their own status. We had a weird situation which I’ll share with caution so as not to out myself. A distant cousin found my son on LinkedIn and wanted to follow him or whatever you do. My son recognised the surname and asked me if we were related- think my maiden name as the clue. I said yes we are but was baffled as to why they were trying to connect. Absolutely nothing in common. Mentioned it to my mother in passing and her and Dad looked all shifty. Turns out she’d written a round robin type letter to everyone in the family telling them the “news” about his career. We are not a Round Robin letter family at all. Not only had she done this but she had also given his address to everyone “in case they wanted to send a card”. He is incredibly private and would detest this sort of bragging. She didn’t do any of this because she’s a proud granny she wanted to show off. Got in touch with said cousin-no bad blood just different people. They sent me a screenshot of the note. I was aghast. She’d shared private information about my health. She’d shared a slagging off off what she thought about one of my nephews. And to my husband’s amusement she’d added a golden nugget of “oh and BlueLegumes other half has piled weight on recently “. 🤣