Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

Firstly @Lexy70 yes yes yes to understanding the dynamic with your parents. I had a conversation with my husband this weekend and he made a really good point. He said ‘BlueLegume, you know I have never had a proper conversation with either of your parents. They only speak in cliches’. He is spot on and some of your points like them giggling about repatriation etc are very familiar to me. For context we have been married coming up 35 years. When we met my mother dictated what days we were allowed to see each other, no more than. Twice a week. She had seen off a number of boyfriends by this point who maybe went off me but on reflection she made it such a toxic environment I could never really be in the house with them. Cliche bingo or granny bingo as we used to call it existed of just that really, daft comments that if you pulled her up on she would either cry, literally like a toddler or rage at you. About 10 years ago my son was playing a sport at county level and as a result had got really in great shape fitness wise. I am using this as an example as she was sharp as a tack so no cognitive decline concerns…she said to him, squeezing his biceps….’well if it all goes a wrong you can always join the Chippendales’. He was 15. It was so inappropriate I did say something along the lines of ‘Mum that won’t be happening’ . My goodness the rage. ‘Oh BlueLegume you are so sensitive, can’t you take a joke?’.
Mine used to go on fancy holidays and regale us of who they had met and had dinner with ‘every night’. I used to feel so sorry for these poor people stuck with my mother particularly who would have latched onto them and made sure she was in the same place to ‘bump’ into them every day. Pet peeve was how she would go somewhere- they never ever went any where twice - and she would get the pronunciation wrong. God forbid you would check her. My SIL did once and she got trounced by my mother who declared ‘ actually I pronounce it like the locals’….ermm no you don’t that’s a lie is what we should have said.

@Whatthewhatnowreally I have a had a read and honestly there are some ace poster on this thread. @HoraceGoesBonkers and @JohnPrescottsPyjamas are really sensible with their advice. Hopefully they will pop in with some on your post.
I do think we unfortunately walk somewhat blindly into our parents old old age. They pootle along ok and then suddenly the decline is like falling off a cliff. It does sound on your post like many of us on here you have tried to make suggestions which would have been helpful but they have known better. Our mother says she buried her head in the sand but she didn’t really she was just not prepared to take any action as she was too busy mocking her peers who were making adaptations or moving. Think along the lines of ‘Mrs so and so has had a downstairs wet room and toilet put in. It looks like an old folks home’. I will try and give some more suggestions later. 🥰

Excellent post.

Oh god, mine is weird about hospitality staff too. Either all sneery at them because they're beneath them or chatting away trying to impress them.

Oh and the blimmin' holidays. Mine aren't going anywhere at the moment but it was SUCH a performance when they did!

@whatthewhatnowreally You can't argue with them cos they won't change. You can only not respond. It sounds like your FIL is in too deep but your DH is realising?

Rant and vent away! This thread is so cathartic and reassuring that others understand exactly what you’re dealing with and that, just because they’re your elderly parents, doesn’t make them sweet old dears.

Oh goodness, it sounds as though your poor FIL definitely needs protecting from her, and thank goodness hospital safeguarding are onside and aware!

Am I reading it correctly that your MIL is now permanently in a care home too? If so, try and reassure your FIL that she is perfectly safe and being looked after, so he doesn’t need to be anxious and jump to all her demands. These personalities are very skilled at convincing those around them that they are helpless victims, when ironically it’s those around them that are the most vulnerable to their manipulation.

If your FIL is still worrying, is it also worth ‘selling’ it to him that for the next few weeks he needs to focus on getting himself well again, otherwise he won’t be able to look after her? Hopefully then, after a few weeks, you will all be able to break the cycle of her controlling him, guilt tripping him and alternative arrangements can be made for his long term recuperation.

My mother kicked off majorly when we first got her into a care home - I initially told her it was just for respite care - and she would never admit it to me, but she eventually loved it; all the attention, a captive audience who would listen to all her opinions and moans, being waited on and (in her mind) everything revolving around her wants and needs.

As has been mentioned on here, we’re all socially programmed to feel responsible for and have a duty of care to our elderly parents but these personalities aren’t your ‘usual’ senior individual, they have a lifetime of manipulative and bad behaviour which their old age seems to bring into sharper focus and gives them an even bigger excuse to exploit those around them.

@BlueLegume thankyou for your understanding and yes to the no two way conversation. Mine just talk at everyone, never two way. Endless monotone that is uninterruptible and solely about themselves. I don't think they have ever asked my DH much in 30 years apart from my M asking him which sister did he wish he'd had married. Utterly inappropriate just like your mum being sleazy regarding your son.

Yes to the oversensitive, no sense of humour if you pull them up on their behaviour. Dad is like a jack in the box, highly trained to defend M at all costs. Did your dad do the same?

My parents like to pronounce places they have visited in the lingo of locals as they say. Port Soller is Puerto Soyeeer. So annoying. She loves pointing out spelling mistakes in menus to waiting staff.

I knew these problematic personalities had similarities having read widely about it. However this thread and posts by @BlueLegume @JohnPrescottsPyjamas @HoraceGoesBonkers I just can't believe the similarities in behaviours, utterly identical fecked up behaviours x

Welcome @Whatthewhatnowreally and rant away. Your mil sounds deeply dysfunctional with entrenched bad behaviours. She has really ramped it up and showing her true colours re FIL who sounds like a poor soul.

I am no expert but I would advise a united front as much as possible especially with you and your DH. These characters thrive on chaos and splitting. Have you heard of the grey rock method, give very little personal info to her and try and react in a non emotional and calm,measured way to her outbursts. Sort of detach yourself if you can.
Don't beat yourself up for the past, these people are masters at love bombing.

Good Luck and I'm sure others will have more good tips x

Oh my gosh, thank you SO much - that you have responded means so much to me - I am just climbing out of being invisible to DH as a mum ( expensive therapy!) and now I am SO resentful of being nice to horrendous MIL and actually to nice and funny FIL. I DONT WANT to be followed around and talked to about the past.
I want to get on with my fledgling business which DH anlways yelled at me about. I do resent that I am stuck ant home with your dad, and I do actually give a fuck , DH, about what you do with malicious MIL because mine was so nice and you treated her like shit.
Im not ACTUALLY fond of my parents in law . With SIL as there was always a drama and we always felt we were in a competition where who was worse off got MILs attention.- they took over every Xmas , so we went there, and oh my gosh, the AMAZING sister in law was flying over! .( Business class and taxis and dad was paying I might add.)So I was needed! I couldn’t see my mum! On Xmas eve when notably SIL and DH had fucked off, i ACTUALLY had to tell in-laws to stop yelling as it was my Xmas holiday too
It’s compounded by how nasty DH was to my mum - he’d had an aneurysm, then made redundant, then a new job as lock down ended and all the advice I had was let your single rich brother deal - you have 2 kids plus husband. So I dutifully stayed here while brother dealt with mum, ( abroad) oand I longed to go and help. But kids, DH and new job.
im very confused, very resentful, and I’ve had FIL all day while DH went to his office - I’m self employed which SIL seems to think means I do bugger all. DH pretty much thinks the same , after years of nagging me to get a job and dissing every job I got ( many previous posts under different names) actually, no- I’ve carved myself a job that could expand given chance, and dare I say it, support or even encouragement..
I get FIL all day, following me around, and I have to be nice and make loads of lovely snacks and help him find his isas and plus MIL calls - and I really don’t want to talk to her. It’s either hysterical ‘ I’ve definitely got rectal cancer, the home won’t let me see a dr, let me tell you all the symptoms, WHy don’t you want to know what my anus is doing?’ And then SIL texts, DH complains because I’ve now drunk half a bottle of wine, while cooking him dinner. I AM SO FUCKED OFF and it’s only week one of him staying here,
rant over, and no I’m not proof reading.
a, DH right and I’ve drunk half a bottle,
b, I’m pissed off at DH saying I’m drunk. I fucking left him out with mates on Saturday night to get pisse d( and he did) as he deserved to, while I went home to FUCKING DAD. Grrrrrrrrr
please help me manage resentment and anger!!!

Sorry, I will get to being helpful and responding logically and kindly, just so need a mo to vent to people who get it. What’s pissing me off, I realize, is after YEARS of DH telling me I should get an amazing job, and not to see my mum abroad as I haven’t got the air fare, I have finally found a path that could pay well if I develop it, but suddenly no. I’m looking after his dad because what else do I do all day.
grrrrrrrrr!

My DM once started pretending she could speak an sub Saharan African language to some random people from a country where it was spoken. She started clicking away at them. It was mortifying.

She has never, to my knowledge, claimed to speak this language or done any clicking or clucking before or since. 😂

@Whatthewhatnowreally in mumsnet parlance you have a DH problem, but you already know that. I understand the rage at being held back and down but simultaneously somehow expected to be successful. Vent away

horace that’s genius! I shall try it next time I’m out 😁
sockfluff you’ve nailed exactly what I couldn’t identify for years. Thank you! It’s amazing how lovely it is to be heard.
tonight DH comes in and somehow I’m making dinner and washing up while they watch footy. I sit in the kitchen as I hate football, and I’m also fed up of FIL . He’s ok, it’s just he’s always pacing around after me, making it impossible for me to get anything done.
Im conflicted because I realize he’s nearly died twice in the last 6 weeks and we can hardly bung him in a home. DH is out the house from 7-6 and knackered .so I know I’m being unreasonable. I think it’s because I feel like I’m finally finding me and here I go, shoved down into domesticity again. I NEVER wanted to be a housewife, yet somehow…

sockfluff well you did say vent!

Aannndddd we never go anywhere because DH tired/doesn’t fly/doesn’t ever want to book anything - he’s too busy, I don’t earn enough. He has promised us a big holiday over Xmas..not happening again, His sister and her daughter are coming to be with dad for a full on English Xmas. Our son doesn’t like the daughter, she’s very nice, they both are, but I just feel overwhelmed by them all, and I don’t want son to feel pushed out, and I don’t want to do all the shit. Even if they help, which they will, there’s still all the hidden beds, washing, ‘it’s in that cupboard’ crap.
in a day, MIL calls me, then SIL texts, then FIL can’t do something again. So my whole being is getting subsumed into this bloody family.
id really hoped to find something to do at Xmas after their visit, but now we have FIL. I say Grrrrrr.

Also to lexy, blue, Horace and John/ sorry you are all going through this - and everyone else on the John prescotts trousers (great namej thank you, that’s what I’m hopefully doing.just don’t know why I’m so angers and resentful and irritated.**
**

@Whatthewhatnowreally sorry for everything you have going on. I started this thread thinking I might be flamed for my original post but needed a moment way back. It has been a very interesting and for the most part safe place to have vent.

@Lexy70 mentioned grey rock. By not reacting you stop feeding the drama. It is worth a shot.

@SockFluffInTheBath is correct in that your DH is the problem.

You say you cannot put FIL in a home. Could you try some respite care?

If you stopped doing the ‘domesticity’ for a day or so and focussed on your business what would happen?

Do vent on here we are all happy to give that space but it might be that starting a thread yourself dedicated to your situation might get you even better advice.

@Whatthewhatnowreally
I second starting a thread of your own.
Mums net gives great advice.

@Lexy70 Grey Rocking is excellent advice. I wish I’d known about it when Mother was alive. She thrived on confrontation and conflict so responding with, “Oh really - that’s a shame” and “Anyway, what time did you need to be at…?” would have been very useful and starved her of the fuel she needed to cause an upset!

I used to exhaust myself mentally anticipating and avoiding subjects I knew she would lock onto and make a big deal out of, and I always felt I needed to put the record straight, but look back now and realise what a waste of time that was as she was never going to change.

The other suggestion I’ve since had, would be to use the 54321 method that is usually an anxiety coping strategy. Again, when these people are in full flow, mentally remove yourselves from their negativity by encouraging yourself to focus on the present moment. The technique works by connecting you with each of your five senses: sight, touch, hearing, smell, and taste:

1. Look around: Name five things you can see
2. Feel: Focus on four things you can feel
3. Listen: Name three things you can hear
4. Smell: Notice two things you can smell
5. Taste: Focus on one thing you can taste

Again, I wish I’d known about these at the time as it would have taken my focus and frustration and redirected it somewhere far more mentally beneficial.

@BlueLegume the speaking in cliches resonates and my husband would probably say the same. I’ve recently heard the phrase terminating cliches ie ones that just close the conversation down and that’s always been my mum. Her stock one as a teenager was “it’s hard growing up” well yes it is when you live with you two as parents. She also loved. “Life is cheap” when looking at the news and tragedies in less developed countries. So quite dim and shallow yet her favourite saying was TorroFermey doesn’t understand “ but good god I did/do , my emotional intelligence is off the scale compared to yours.

I found grey rocking only worked up to a point and "D"M went to increasing lengths to try and get a reaction - posting stuff through my door, phoning me on holiday to try and panic me about DF being ill.

After months of doing my best grey rocking I finally snapped and had a row with her and haven't spoken to her since (she went from demanding to know why I didn't like her to being completely sneery and dismissive about anything I told her I had a problem with), which no doubt she'll still be in full on victim mode over.

Oh yes. They can be very patronising.

”You don’t know what hard work is”
Said the woman who married my wealthy father, never had a mortgage/debt and never had to ever work.

”You wouldn’t have spoken to my father like that” The father who had two women at the same time - and fathered 4 children by them under the same roof! Hardly a good example of morals.

”One day you’ll thank me”
What for? Bringing me up to suffer from high anxiety and terrified of confrontation which has taken years to unpick.

”When you’re a parent…”
When I became a parent, I promised myself I wouldn’t ever treat my children the same way and never have. Her idea and example of parenting was was poles apart from mine. Spare the rod and spoil the child was very much her philosophy.

”When you’re my age you’ll feel differently…”
I’m well past the age she was when she first started saying this to me, and I still haven’t changed my original view that she was a manipulative narcissist.

.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas ha, I did laugh at that- my FILs partner who is no longer sadly with us used to say about the past (and her ex husband) - 'well we worked hard ' - this was someone who never worked more than 8 hours a week even with adult children and a lot of the time not at all. Nope- your partner worked hard- you no doubt had children rearing when young and housework but for many years had housework for 2 and nothing else. She wasn't a nasty person in many ways and had many nice traits but really did come out with some awful stuff- She hated Germany as an example and Germans- but had never been or met any either - and that was the whole basis of her Brexit views too

Absolutely, this place is a sanity-saver.

He’s ok, it’s just he’s always pacing around after me, making it impossible for me to get anything done.
Im conflicted because I realize he’s nearly died twice in the last 6 weeks and we can hardly bung him in a home. DH is out the house from 7-6 and knackered .so I know I’m being unreasonable.

Mmm no, you’re not being unreasonable. It’s easy to say your DH should look after his own dad if he wants him in the house but lots of us (have to) roll with situations we suggest others should avoid. You are human to be frustrated. Could you suggest/tell DH that FIL needs to go to day care/ respite/ hobby club as you’re going out to a work appointment? What do you think might happen if he was left home alone?

ps you’re a better person than me, I think I would yell at my FIL to foxtrot oscar after less than one day of it.

@Crikeyalmighty @JohnPrescottsPyjamas gosh so many similar behaviours on this thread. We once went to a European country we’d never been to and really enjoyed it. On returning I said to my father ‘Dad you’d really like it and it’s really convenient to fly to’. Without missing a beat my mother said to my father ‘ Tell her, tell her (Dad’s name)’. He then said whilst looking at my mother who had folded her arms and pursed her lips ‘ We don’t like the (name of the inhabitants of said country do we (Mum’s name)’

They had never been to said destination and to my knowledge their only interactions with said country was from a 70s/80s sitcom.

The lack of logical thought and impulsivity does seem to be a theme with these individuals. Again, showing a lack of emotional maturity (and the similarity to the thought processing of a 4 year old!)

My mother did EXACTLY this too! She also took an irrational dislike to a whole nation, to the point where she wouldn’t buy anything she suspected of being manufactured there or deal with anyone she thought might have originated there!

We’re not talking about a nation that had a poor human rights record, has been in any conflict in the last 80 years, that she or any of her family had has any negative experiences with or was anything less than a full democracy. She just decided she didn’t like the country. Totally irrational.