Help completing financial assessment, deprivation of assets?

[Elderlycarer]

Probably controversial but here goes.
DM diagnosed with dementia 2015. Gave POA to me and DSIS. Sold her home 2016, split proceeds between the two of us who used it to adapt our home so she could live with us both to be cared for. Spent equal time between both homes. Poa solicitor advised us to take £800 each for reasonable living expenses.
Fast forward to 2024, mum needs a nursing home. Financial assessment forms for council funded care have just come through and I’m worried we’ve done something wrong. Spoken to two solicitors today, both said not sure grey area.
maybe this should be moved to legal board?
Have we acted unlawfully?

You are allowed to pay family members to care for you, when my mum needed help to remain living at home, my sister offered to give up her job and care for mum for 20 hours a week. I contacted the Office of Public Guardians ( I think that’s what who issues POAs) and asked their advice. They referred me to the guidance for Deputies which states that family are often the best carers for people with dementia and can be reasonably compensated financially. We decided to give my sister half the cost of an agency carer with an additional petrol allowance to take mum to social events and medical appointments. In mums case, 20 hours a week at £10 an hour plus £50 petrol each month worked out at £850 every four weeks. Mum still paid all the bills for her house and food shopping etc.

So I’m not sure that SS will consider £1600 unreasonable for 24 hour care with all bills included.

As it happened, mum had enough income from her pensions and investments to almost cover her care fees of £1250 a week so was self funding the whole time.

I think you and your sister did a wonderful thing making so many sacrifices to look after your mum and I hope these final months are peaceful for you all.

@Elderlycarer this is great helpful information from @Ihateslugs and is what you needed from this thread. Good luck with the assessor and wishing you strength for this stage with your DM.

Yes, you're right, @FiniteSagacity. I was wrong.

If the monthly payments are within OPG guidance then I can't see the OP will have a problem at all. Best of luck OP, it must have been exhausting to look after your mother for so many years.

You can rent a room in your own home & receive up to 7k tax free per year.

Here is the rent a room info

I assume you could also claim carers allowance too

www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home

That was never the case with my DM's local authority. The pads were horrendously bulky. As for the drinks the GP wouldn't prescribe the ones she preferred. I suppose it's the postcode lottery at play again

If all the money was used to adapt your home and your sisters home I think that would be ok. Paying £800 per month is very steep. Your Mum can't have eaten that much. £400 per month would have been much more reasonable unless you and your sister had to stop working to care for her. Does your Mum have any money left or did she give it all to you and your sister? If she's got some left you should state what is left.

If she was at your sister's 50 percent of the time your charged your Mum £800 for 2 weeks each month. That's £400 per week. Many would charge a relative less than £400 per month. Did either you or your sister have to give up work to give care to your Mum?

There is a cap to how you can rent a room of your home out for it's on Gov website. Some of the money you would not have had to pay tax on. Only above that amount. You can look on the government website just how much is tax free.

It'll be interesting to hear how you get on OP. It should be fine. It's appropriate to spend money knowing a person will need care as long as you're not attempting to avoid paying for that care. You spent your DM's assets on DM's care, both the adaptations and the weekly expenses. As you point out, had she gone into a care home when she was diagnosed, the LA would soon have been liable after her house money was used in fees. The PoA lawyer's advice re expenses and allowances seems sensible - DM had 24 hour care from you both, in place of which the LA would have to fund a care home. Care homes where I am in the north of England are £1100 - £1500 a week. I can't see where the deprivation of assets would come in.

If you give up your job to care for someone.

Carers allowance is £81 per week ! Which is pitiful

Do you know many people that can live on that ?

Which is why her DM was paying £800 towards a place to live, care, laundry, food, trips out, POA for health & wealth, loss of freedom for the carer

I am sure you & your sister did a great job of caring for your DM for a long time.

I sympthasize, I am in a similar position.

You should revisit the question of Continuing Healthcare in the light of the change in your mother’s circumstances. My dad was bedridden and wholly dependent for the last four years of his life. We had applied for CHC and been refused, and he’d had to pay all his fees for care in his home.
In the last few months of his life (he died at the end of July) he was referred to palliative care and placed on an end of life pathway. The palliative team arranged for CHC which was granted. Try again!

The £800 per month each seems high to me but if that's what was advised by a power of attorney solicitor surely when giving you that advice they would have considered deprivation of assets should your dm need care in the future

Is it possible your mother may have been given these because she didn’t have savings. It may vary from authority to authority but my husband’s aunt had to pay for nicer products. She had to pay for her own special bed at home because she wanted the best.

Totally agree with this post. Things add up.

I don't know how it all works but mum had her own house plus savings and was self funding. Local authorities can pay up to £3k for adaptations, the district nurse orders the bed and mattress appropriate for her needs, the continence nurses do a assessment and supplied pads, the council arranged pad disposal service, the gp and dietician prescribed the drinks, we are lucky as we have a fraility service vua the gp and hospital who Co ordinate everything.,grants are also available for things like an accessible bathroom.,,

Thank you for this! I have been reading more about this and it seems this is allowed but it really should have been formalised legally beforehand. This will definitely be my defence if it comes to it.
To answer some other questions, the £800, I suppose I saw it as a wage, this wasn’t really spent directly on mum. Though it did go on food and bills. It allowed me to do what I did.

Did I get her needs assessed? Yes of course! SS fitted some rails for us but we already had a good set up. They only offered incontinence pads, not pants which were no good for us.

Regarding CHC, it was only recently denied but I do feel close to asking again. I’m very concerned about mum, she seems very unwell to me, is jerking uncontrollably and cannot stay awake for more than a minute. They tell me her vitals are good but it looks like dying to me…but I’m no Dr.

I haven’t yet posted the forms

We did not legalise anything when paying my sister but then we were never put in the position of having to ask for financial help.

Mum declined very rapidly at the end of her life, which to be honest was a relief but we just had enough time to get to the care home. We had said that we did not want any medical intervention at this stage, in agreement with the care home and her doctor, so she was left in peace and just stopped breathing.

I had said that I did not want to watch her die but in the end I was glad that I had been there, just chatting to her with my brother and sister about all our happy childhood memories.

I thought I’d come back and update in case it helps anyone else. Financial assessment is now complete and the council will be paying a contribution and mum paying the remainder in line with her income. No other questions have been asked. I’m so, so relieved. Mum continues to deteriorate so it’s a huge relief to know she can stay and we can focus solely on her now. A huge weight has been lifted. Thanks for all of the input and support, it was helpful.

That's great, I'm so pleased. That is how it was for me too, I was surprised how smoothly it went, I had been worried about it for months before! The council have been paying the fees for a year now.

In April (end of their financial year I guess) they sent me a letter to let me know the payment had increased slightly. That's the only other communication I've had about it.

Good news, OP. Your findings will be helpful to other people going through their own versions of your circumstances. Glad your focus can be on DM without this as worrying distraction.

I think some answers are unduly smug and judgemental. Looking after a relative is not for the faint hearted and I couldnt do it (parents went into care homes in the end).

However as you have photos if not receipts of stair lifts and disability aids that is very good news. No one has these items by choice. its not as though you spent £50k each on a snazzy extension and then immediately claimed Mum needed to go into care once you had built it.

I did think the £800 might be an issue but you sound as though you did your best under very difficult circumstances.

In fact £50k wont go very far these days with regard to building work. The two sets of spend can be explained away by saying you needed to share the work. That in itself is unusual but understandable. There is normally one sibling who does the vast majority or all of the work.

In the last few years of a my parents life the spend was considerable. There was spending on her sheltered housing PLUS a private care home costing thousands per month. After she passed I was prepared for questions especially as she was liable for inheirtance tax but none came. I could have answered the questions but its the time to get all of this together (whilst my siblings did Fxxk all!).

You did the best you could.

@Elderlycarer thank you for taking the time to update. I’m sure this will help others - I’m pretty sure a deprivation of assets assessment is in my future now DF is stable and in a nursing home.