Help completing financial assessment, deprivation of assets?

[Elderlycarer]

Probably controversial but here goes.
DM diagnosed with dementia 2015. Gave POA to me and DSIS. Sold her home 2016, split proceeds between the two of us who used it to adapt our home so she could live with us both to be cared for. Spent equal time between both homes. Poa solicitor advised us to take £800 each for reasonable living expenses.
Fast forward to 2024, mum needs a nursing home. Financial assessment forms for council funded care have just come through and I’m worried we’ve done something wrong. Spoken to two solicitors today, both said not sure grey area.
maybe this should be moved to legal board?
Have we acted unlawfully?

The ugly comment was in response to a PP who said I’d made home improvements, I meant no offence.

crossed posts 😊 they’re certainly not an object of beauty, my sympathies x

Have you continued to take the £800 each while she is in care ? Was she living between the two houses while you were taking the money - seems a lot £1600 a month to cover expenses of one person

All you can do is fill the form in to the best of your ability, as honestly as possible, and not volunteer any information that they don't request.

No we stopped when she was admitted into care. And yes it was taken by both households.

@Elderlycarer my mother had been paying for care for nearly 10 years, first at home, and then for 7 years in a care home. That is where all her money went!

She had never owned a property, she always rented. The money to self-fund her care was an inheritance, so all her assets were cash.

The LA never asked me how much money she had originally had or where it was from. I don't know if they were able to investigate themselves to find the answer but if so they did it pretty quickly as her funding was agreed within 3 months.

As I understand it, your mother could not pay you 'for care' so presumably the £800 was for rent/utilities etc.

Have a look on Spareroom in your area for what a room would cost. This is not including any assistance, care, food etc. I think less than £400 a week is pretty good going, especially as care homes are upwards of £1k a week! Possibly a lot more for dementia care.

PP, I would answer as honestly as you can, whilst also finding out the currently weekly cost of her care home and calculating how much would be left today if you’d just put her into a care home ten years ago. I imagine it would take been negative quite a while back.

The fact that the arrangement you put in place and the money you spent prevented her needing a care home for 9 years surely demonstrates that the money was used to stop her needing care and as any attempt of DOA

If you doing have receipts then tell the council DOA team that they are welcome to visit your house and can have the stair lift if they want it!

Although £800 a month seems a lot, a care home would cost double that every week which puts it into context

*NOT as an attempt at DOA that should say

My understanding of this is that it would definitely be considered deprivation of assets if done post diagnosis. We have considered a similar set up with my mother but have been told that we would need to give back the money when she goes into care

How would you be able to explain where the proceeds from the sale of her house has disappeared to? One huge problem is that you decided to sell her home a year after she received her diagnosis, so it’s reasonable for the LA to assume that at the time it was known she may need care later. Plus you split the assets between 2 of you when it could also be argued that expecting someone with dementia to move between 2 homes is unreasonable as it’s so unsettling.

I can’t believe you not only used her money to improve your homes but each took £800 a month from her for rent! So you’ve had £96k each off her over the last 10 years. What has that money been used for?

Well really she decided to sell, it was what she wanted. She was in the very early stages of the illness then and she wasn’t unsettled. She enjoyed being at both homes with her children, her grandchildren and her dogs. Yes, it was probable that she may need care at some point but we cared for as long as possible. She’s probably at deaths door now. Her money would have lasted for approximately 17months of care.

If her house only realised £100k when it was sold, and she had an income of over £1600 per month, then the cost to her for care over 10 years would be £86k plus her income. So not 100’s of 1000’s

Have you been paying tax on the £800 a month?

yes that would be the cost to her, it would nowhere near have covered the whole amount for 10 years.

edited to add. Her fees now are £7k per month. Over ten years that’s £840,000. We’ve taken nothing from the state and have asked for no help whatsoever

No

Well they'll likely report you to Hmrc.

See this is why it's not worth doing what you did. Too much to go wrong.

I wonder what sort of care they'll be able to get for your mum on council funded rates?

Is she entitled to CHC funding? Have a look at Beacon - they have specialists that can help and I wonder if they might be able to help with the current council form?

beaconchc.co.uk

No we were not approved for CHC, but thanks 🙂

I don’t work or claim benefits so doubt it’s taxable?

I wouldn't worry about that.

Blimey that’s expensive. My stepfather’s care home fees are £780 a week, or £3,380 a month. Mind you, it’s pretty grotty.
Did she not claim Attendance Allowance when she was living with your? Also, if she’s self funding, she should still get AA.
The thing is, if the financial assessment accepts that the selling of her home wasn’t deprivation of assets, so your DM becomes a partial funder, they will only fund up to a certain amount - no swanky care home prices! Be prepared for her to have to be moved unless she’s fully self funding. (I still think her paying you both £800 a month to be looked after to be excessive)

Did you give up work to look after her?

Didn’t occur to me to be honest, naivety all round! I’m retired and only get a small pension. I’ll pay the tax if it comes to it.

xpost about tax before you edited.

yes I gave up work to look after her. I was home based but was being forced into office so took early retirement (should have gone for constructive dismissal looking back)