Anyone have a relative in a mcarthey stone? Need advice

[Edinlassy]

As the title says really am in need of some advice from anyone who have experience of a relative living in one of these.

long story short we are reaching a point where they are making noises that my mum is no longer independent enough to live there. As she owns he flat outright I am wondering what happens when they decide she is no longer eligible to live there. How do they force a sale?

many thanks

you then need to clean up her apartment and get it onto the market
will there even be enough equity left to make it worth the cost and effort of dealing with the place though?
These places are a rip off, I'd be tempted to abandon it to them!

Although it’s too late now rentals are much more flexible. People tend to move into them far too late. DM had very happy times in her one but she rented. I would never suggest buying one at say mid 80’s. They really aren’t a rip off if you look into properly. Never buy brand new. Look at second hand if you insist on buying or rent.

I hope things ate a little clearer today OP, and like other PPs, suggest you walk away for your own sake.

@Edinlassy please don’t feel bad for stepping away. I always feel terrible for relatives putting themselves through the wringer for a societal expectation. Not every person, no matter how disabled, is a nice person and I have certainly come across some people who despite having given birth to children could not be classed as a mother in the true sense.

no one will think badly of you. And if someone does they can go try and help her. Trust me, I have rung adult children who have said they want nothing to do with their parents care, and have always believed that there was a reason for that and not judged them for it.

you can’t help her, she doesn’t want it. She only wants to abuse you further. Step away and focus on your own children to be the mom that you would have wanted (which I’m sure you are).

Op I am so sorry you are going through this does she have a social worker assigned to her?

i would refer it to social services and walk away let them deal with it she is refusing to let you help her and you are under no obligation to do so

@Edinlassy , I wondered if there was any update on the situation as I know of someone considering moving to a MS property.

@poppybuttons Hi. Well the update goes I continued to get calls from the house manager and then another resident who had my number in case of emergency. They were both calling complaining at the makes my mother’s wheelchair was leaving on the entrance carpets. I have since blocked both numbers and refuse to have anything to do with issues like that.
In general she has been happy enough living there but issues are arising now and there fall back of dealing with it appears to be harrasing me to get her to fall in line.

The costs of living there are also rising at an alarming rate but that’s everywhere these days I guess.

Can I also say thanks for everyone who gave me advice and support on this thread. I truly had reached the end of my tether with it all. It’s been 18 long years of it

I haven't heard good things about them. I have heard of somebody in a housing association flat being asked to leave as she was a danger to other residents. Dementia related.

I wouldn't make their life easier. They are raking it in with their extortionate service charges and unfair t & c's. If she is being careless with cigarettes that could start a fire. Try ringing Age UK and see what they say.

My DM had a good time at M&C. However they are for independent living not for people who have dementia or need to be picked up when they fall.

That is not what they offer to do and if someone is constantly falling they are not the right palce for them. My observations of the development is that people move in far far too late at late 80's and even worse they choose to buy. Noone should be buying a new property at 88! But people do and then the family and the resident themselves wonder why they only lasted there for a year.

Never never buy. Mum rented and it suited her but people get carried away with the new shiny apartment and move in. Selling them is very tricky because by default they are only able to sell them to other 70 plus people. All of that seems to be ignored.

If you dont like what they offer then avoid but certainly around they are proving very popular.

If you really really want to buy then look at a second hand one. Remember the service charge is still payble once the person has passed on or left until its actually sold.

Of course someone with dementia isnt right for M&C or realisticaly anywhere they requires independent living. At Mum's development there was a lady who had mild dementia which grew and she really wasnt safe on her own. She used to knock on people's doors late at night fell often and left the taps on in her kitchen to overflow.

Mum eventually had to leave because her needs were getting more complex so a care home was the next stage for her. I made that decision. It was clear that independent living was not possible for her.

As @Tracker1234 says they are not designed for people who have dementia or who need long term care. They are like having your own flat but with the security of a house manager on site, but that house manager is not there for care needs, you still need to be reasonably independent. Too many people either move in too late or stay too long. My DM is in one and she has watched residents go from being able to able to join in with all activities and have full mobility to being stuck in their flat not being able to get out unaided and living a very lonely life.

Good for you op, and shame on the staff for trying to make it your problem. You sound like you’ve done all you can under very difficult circumstances.

Surely this means that their business model is unfeasible? The target market is elderly people and when we are elderly almost none of us downsize at the right time it is always left too late. And of course they stay too long, the older we get the greater our impulse to stick with the familiar.

Their business model isn’t infeasible. It’s our error to move too late in life. They make good profits and there are loads of people who want shiny and new and completely ignore that they have just left that decision far too late in life.

I agree with all of the above. My mum was fine to be living there when she moved in. Fast forward a few years she is no longer independent enough to live there but she won’t accept that and is ploughing on refusing carers and living in filth not allowing anyone in her flat. She won’t listen to anybody including me and she didn’t when she bought the bloody place. I just don’t know how they can force her to move out when she owns it outright. It’s such a tricky situation as she will never accept she is no longer capable of keeping a home even a tiny 1 bed flat.

Edin - yep. Very familiar story. The ones I met who had brought claimed they were fine living on their own and children had forced them into one! For the right person they are good places. Bistro on site, laundry help, cleaning of flat once a week. Other people who feel like you. Quiz nights, keep fit classes, hair salon on site along with beauty treatments. You can even bring your pet and rent a car parking place BUT leave it too late and you won’t last very long in one.

As I said before. They just leave it too late. They aren’t care homes, they don’t pick people off the floor, they either call you or the paramedics. Elderly people can be frustratingly stubborn bordering on just plain daft. If you leave the tap running you need to sort it out.

My mums not in a care+one so there is no bistro or cleaning etc it is totally independent living. They have a day room with events etc but she won’t attend anything. Apparently the smell from her flat is affecting other residents and they are complaining. She has not let me inside this year or the manager to do the mandatory 3month safety checks. They want her out I just don’t know how they could enforce it

@Edinlassy I think they can start eviction proceedings if she is not following the terms of the lease. I'd imagine that is a very slow process though, and they'll be reluctant due to poor publicity. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

I was going to say that the lease on the flat will be tailored to an elderly parent living in it.

The development will have experienced things like this before and will be firm and clear what needs to happen. Of course as a PP says - they dont want to be accused of turfing out an elderly person but she doesnt sound safe living there.

Have SS been involved etc? One dept on their own trying to help doesnt always work but lots of them will make a difference.

Your Mum sounds ill and desperately trying to hide what is happening. Be prepared for a real mess once access is gained. Do the development have a master/spare key? I suspect if they give notice to inspect your Mum will just put the chain on.

I did hear from one of of girls in Mum's development that if they really need to get in they can knock, if Mum doesnt answer they could go on for Health and Safety reasons. They had someone similar who had actually fallen and not been seen for a day or so they let themselves in. Unoffically they looked out for people who were regular lunch goers but one day didnt appear.

Mum has passed now but quite honestly I was sick of the whole thing. Only sibling in the UK, phone calls late at night to say they had fallen. We of course need a seperate conversation about quality of life and the way we often prolong life (and pat ourselves on the back about it).

If they try any sh1t with you op I would make them aware that I will have no hesitation in going public. As pointed out by a previous poster they will not want any bad publicity!

My DM is in a flat. When she first moved in, in the paperwork you complete on arrival you can give permission for the house manager to enter your property if you have not been seen or heard from in 3 days I think, or if similar concern. You are always meant to notify them if you are going to be away.

There are terms of the lease you have to uphold.

The brochures etc for places like this are very clear that this is for independent living not care home type facility.

Black - what would you like them or the OP to do

When you sign a lease you agree to certain policies i.e no pets. You cannot just ignore this. The Mother is clearly unwell and probably with dementia

They do allow pets in some.

I agree - Mum's did but I am trying to make the point that if you sign a document and you agree to the said documents T&C's then you cannot then choose to ignore them. If it says you need to allow access then that is what needs to happen. You cannot lock yourself into a house and pretend you are OK when clearly you arent!